Wikipedia:Australian Wikipedians' notice board/Archive 4

This is an archive of past discussions on Wikipedia:Australian Wikipedians' notice board. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current main page.

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

→

City naming conventions

I'd like to invite everyone to look and comment at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (city names)#Naming convention for Australia (take 2) -- Chuq 23:37, 10 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Help required from an admin -- While there is no problem with moving articles to a canonical location, User:Thortful has been moving numerous pages with copy and paste. Pasting Coogee into Coogee, New South Wales has added a paragraph everywhere there had been a single newline. Would some admin please be so kind as to restore the page history and formatting? --xoddam 08:12, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Agriculture in Australia

I present you you all my first Australian article :). It needs work, particularly on the advocacy of the Australian government in international trade reform and the future challenges needs expansion. Please take a look and add or subtract as you see fit--nixie 13:02, 11 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Hey, good work! that's an area we were very much in need of having an article. Now if we can expand this and put some nice pictures in, I reckon we have the beginnings of a featured article. - Ta bu shi da yu 14:57, 11 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Very good! Done some minor tweaks with wikilinks (more the merrier!!! - I'm sure I'll piss someone off eventually). But now I really must get off to bed (this is so much worse than SparkNotes)--ZayZayEM 15:04, 11 Oct 2004 (UTC)

The Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry has a bunch of free photos, I haven't quite got the hang of inserting them into text in an appealing way yet --nixie 23:21, 11 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Excellent start in a desperately needed area! Thanks, nixie. Ambi 07:32, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)

ACOTW

Someone look at my message on [[Talk:WP:ACOTW|the ACOTW Talk Page]] please. I'm confused, and I don't like it.--ZayZayEM 00:37, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I'm confused as well :P -- Chuq 03:22, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)

As am I, and I started it! Look, we're a bit disorganised at the moment. If people could be patient (or better yet - help out!) then I'll get it sorted once I get over my depression. - Ta bu shi da yu 03:37, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)

i think that because we are at the moment a reasonably small subset of wikipedians, that we should change it to ACOTF (ie. fortnight). Its too big a task for just a week. ~~I mentioned this before but no one commented.~~ Any thoughts? The bellman 11:30, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I don't think that's necessary just yet. Let's just have this particular one go for a fortnight. If we find this is a recurring problem, then make it permanent. Ambi 12:33, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)

While it seems a possibility, what I feel is that interest soon peters out after a week (or a few days). Its not like you can't edit outside of its ACOTW nomination.--ZayZayEM 05:17, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Yeah, I've been less bold with some articles that are current nominees, on the grounds that somebody else is likely to fix it soon, which is obviously a bad sentiment to foster. (In other words, I really have more important things to do and I feel guilty depriving others of the fun when I'm not meant to be spending time here!) Mark Hurd 10:41, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)

More News from ACOTW

We currently have a tie. And so far its headed into another tie (yay!). So if anybody would like to cast some deciding votes for who will win out of the Royal Flying Doctor Service of Australia, Azaria Chamberlain, or ACTU; head over to WP:ACOTW. If its still a tie by tonight, RFDSA will win for being nominated first.--ZayZayEM 01:14, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Smoking reform

I'd like to plug the facts about the recent anti-smoking laws into an article somewhere. Tobacco smoking has a "legal issues" section, but I thought something like Health in Australia, Smoking in Australia or Smoking reform in Australia might be more appropriate - none of those articles exist, but are there any other suggestions? -- Chuq 03:22, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Excellent idea! That is, both the recent anti-smoking laws and the idea of plugging them into an article are excellent ideas! (POV warning! POV warning!) I'm assuming that there's nothing beyond the "Legal issues" section of Tobacco smoking in Wikipedia at the moment? I guess it just needs a good name (I would suggest making it smoking specific, if we get a Health in Australia article up then smoking can get a paragraph and a link in that), then a link added to Tobacco smoking. —Stormie 04:15, Oct 12, 2004 (UTC)

Or, even better, have Smoking in Australia or Smoking reform in Australia as a summary style subset of Health in Australia! Ambi 07:32, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Useful data for a Health in Australia page can be found here:[1]. The morbidity data make a strong case for the smoking bans. I also noticed that the Medicare (Australia) is specific to government funded health care, mabe it should be renamed to Health care Australia and info on private health care added.--nixie 03:31, 13 Oct 2004 (UTC)

But Medicare is only government funded health care! Isn't it? - Ta bu shi da yu 03:19, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)

My point is that there in nothing on private health care in Australia. Stick the private healh info wherever, I just though a more comprehensive way to do it would be to expand and rename the medicare article--nixie 03:22, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Up for adminship

Lupo put me up for adminship. I invite everyone here to vote and comment - both kudos and brickbats are welcome! - Ta bu shi da yu 09:34, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)

The Age's 150 Influential Lives

Today's The Age newspaper has a list of 150 influential Melburnians. Of course, it's largely Melbourne-centric, but regardless, virtually all of these should probably have articles. I'm posting it here because quite a few have broader significance outside Melbourne. So, without further ado (and with those that I didn't think were notable for our purposes people removed) -

David Collins, colonist, Charles La Trobe, superintendent of Port Phillip, John Batman, founder of Melbourne, James Blackburn, surveyor, John Pascoe Fawkner, other founder of Melbourne, Robert Hoddle, surveyor, Carlo Catani, engineer, Alfred Deakin, politician, James Esmond, gold prospector, Hugh McKay, inventor and businessman, Fred Walker, creator of Vegemite, Graham Kennedy, TV host, Maureen Wheeler and Tony Wheeler, founders of Lonely Planet, Jean Blackburn, creator of the Victorian Certificate of Education, Bert Newton, TV host, James Williamson, theatre owner and producer, Michael Gudinski, founder of Mushroom Records, George Fairfax, arts administrator, William Foster and Ralph Foster, brewers, Arthur Russell, founder of Hoyts Cinemas, Reg Ansett, airline tycoon, Hector Crawford, television producer, Lew Bandt, designer of the ute, Ron Tudor, record producer, Thomas Finnigan, founder of Malvern Star, William Wardell, architect, Roy Grounds, architect, Joseph Reed and Frederick Barnes, architects, John Truscott, architect, Germaine Greer, feminist, Beatrice Faust, feminist, Beryl Baurepaire, community lobbyist, Peter Singer, philosopher, Tim Costello, minister, Reg Saunders, first Aboriginal army officer, Edward Dunlop, war hero, Doug Nicholls, footballer and Aboriginal activist, Norm Gallagher, head of the BLF, Caroline Chisholm, social rights campaigner, David Penington, academic, John Brosnan, chaplain at Pentridge and campaigner for prison reform, Stephanie Alexander, chef and author, Mietta O'Donnell, chef and author, John Reed and Sunday Reed, arts patrons and founders of Heide, Percy Grainger, composer, Michael Leunig, cartoonist, Barry Humphries, comedian, Nick Cave, musician, Fred Schepisi, film director, Gillian Armstrong, film director, David Williamson, playwright, Nellie Melba, opera singer, Paul Kelly, musician, Helen Garner, author and feminist, John Brack, painter, Mirka Mora, painter, Fred Williams, painter, Joan Linday, author, Marcus Clarke, author, Tom Roberts, painter, Stephen Bennett, founder of Country Road, Prue Acton, designer, Joseph Saba, designer, Alfred Felton, responsible for the Felton Bequest, Elisabeth Murdoch, philanthropist, Macpherson Robertson, philanthropist, Redmond Barry, judge who sentenced Ned Kelly to death, Richard Pratt, businessman, Vida Goldstein, feminist, Evan Walker, historic buildings activist and politician, Merv Godfrey, creator of the Melway (and thus, Sydway and Brisway) street directories, Eric Westbrook, arts administrator, Theo Sidiropoulous, politician, Horace Petty, state housing minister and champion of the Housing Commission high-rises, Rupert Hamer, former Victorian premier, Gordon Trinca, road safety campaigner, William Barak, early Aboriginal leader, Peter Lalor, Eureka Stockade leader, Bruce Ruxton, former head of the RSL, Jeff Kennett, former Victorian premier, Daniel Mannix, prominent archbishop, Joan Kirner, former Victorian premier and Emily's List Australia activist, David Marriner, developer and theatre proprietor, Keith Murdoch, newspaperman and father of Rupert, George Adams, founder of Tattersalls, Bruce Mathieson, pokie king, Helena Rubinstein, cosmetics entrepreneur, David Syme, activist and Age proprietor, John Gandel, billionaire, Bruno Grollo and Rino Grollo, developers, Sidney Myer, founder of Myer, Graeme Clark, creator of the bionic ear, Gustav Nossal, scientist and former Australian of the Year, Constance Stone, first Australian female registered doctor, Carl Wood and Alan Trounson, IVF pioneers, Peter Doherty, scientist, Jean McNamara and Frank Macfarlane Burnet, scientists, Thomas Wills, drew up the first set of rules for Australian football, Daniel Campbell, founded the MCG, Frank Beaurepaire, Olympic swimmer and businessman, Ross Oakley, former AFL boss, Ron Walker, businessman

I notice a few of these have Tasmanian significance - David Collins, John Batman and George Adams (businessman) - in fact the two of these that don't exist, I have had on my mental to-do list for a while! -- Chuq 10:58, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Speaking of influential Melbournians, does any know anything about the Hall family, they endowed the Walter and Eliza Hall Institute in 1915--nixie 13:35, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)

An excellent list, all of whom should be done (although some will be difficult) and some of whom have been on my to-do list for some time. I have fixed a few spellings. John Reed needs to be disambiguated. Adam 02:38, 13 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Category naming convention

Which naming style should we go with? "Place-ish persons", or "Persons of Place"? —Stormie 03:56, Oct 13, 2004 (UTC)

I'm inclined to go "Persons of Place". Less confusion about adjectives (New South Welsh? Taswegian? Victorian - era or state?). "Place-ish persons" seems to imply that they were born in that state, which may not necessarily be the case. -- Chuq 04:01, 13 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I prefer "Persons of Place" too, e.g. Premiers of South Australia. -- Nickj 04:21, 13 Oct 2004 (UTC)

ditto--ZayZayEM 05:22, 13 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Cool, I agree with you all. Unfortunately I created Category:Queensland Premiers and Category:New South Wales Premiers before I thought about it. Oops! —Stormie 05:49, Oct 13, 2004 (UTC)

Serves you all right for not sticking with Premiers of New South Wales, Governors of New South Wales, etc etc, all of which I created months ago. Adam 09:15, 13 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Ouch. That seems a bit harsh, considering that the person who created the category may not have know that these existed. - Ta bu shi da yu 09:17, 13 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Well, I knew the articles existed, that's what I was going through to categorise everyone! I'm not sure what I was thinking with the categories. It seems I created both Category:New South Wales Premiers and Category:Governors of New South Wales - I must have been on drugs. —Stormie 09:37, Oct 13, 2004 (UTC)

Marijuana or Cocaine? =P Ta bu shi da yu 11:31, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Moved to Category:Governors-General of Australia Bobboy 22:31, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Lists of MPs

Sorry for taking over this section, Ambi! -- Chuq

Handling by-elections

Now that Adam's set up lists for the new lower and upper house, we now have (IMO sensible) naming conventions for them. But I'm still not quite sure how to handle MPs who've resigned and been replaced during their term. Any ideas? Ambi 08:57, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Mention them both in the respective article, along with a footnote detailed the situation (resignation, death, etc and the date) -- Chuq 10:59, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)

And list both in the table itself? Ambi 11:00, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Maybe list the first elected, and mention the second one to the right. Or list them both in the same row of the table. (What I'm getting at, is don't have both of them in the table at separate locations - otherwise someone scanning down the list for a certain electorate will find one of them, but may not go on looking for the other)! -- Chuq 00:02, 16 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Hm. What I was thinking of doing was listing them seperately, with a star or something next to their name, and then a footnote explaining the situation. Ambi 02:04, 16 Oct 2004 (UTC)

'current' redirects

The lists are currently at:

I suggest that

..be disambiguation pages, and..

..be redirects that can be changed to the current term as needed.

I noticed this when I was editing articles to bypass the redirects - the ones that were created when the articles were moved to their new names. Some of the articles refer to "current" (which varies, of course) and some refer to the particular term, giving me the idea of the "current term" redirects. -- Chuq 00:32, 16 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Navigation template

Members of the Australian Parliament
House of Representatives 1998-2001 - 2001-2004 - 2004-2007
Senate 1999-2002 - 2002-2005 - 2005-2008

I was going to do a small template to help navigate between the MP lists (see to the right). Do people:

Not like it
Think it should have just the previous/next like the example shown
Think it should have links to all other parliaments

I have approximated the dates so that politicians elected at the same election are above/below each other on the table. Would the fact that the senate and HR elections don't always align cause a problem? -- Chuq 00:32, 16 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I think that's an excellent idea. I also wouldn't mind having footer boxes for "Member for XXXX", like we currently do with offices such as party leaders. Ambi 02:06, 16 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Tables

Last of all, please see my tables at Wikipedia:Australian wikipedians' notice board/Complete to-do/Politicians#Tables -- Chuq 05:45, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Cyclone Tracy due for front page

Our handiwork is currently due for the front page on October 18. Just thought I'd give you all some notice! Ambi 04:52, 16 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Woohoo! - Ta bu shi da yu 03:20, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)

History of Rugby League

...is a candidate for featured status and needs a lot of work on the Australian/NZ aspects. I've done a bit, but being a sandgroper I don't speak RL fluently. Can anyone lend a hand? Grant65 (Talk) 05:57, Oct 16, 2004 (UTC)

The Age's 150 Champions

Sportspeople this time. Once again, thought I'd put this up here. I'll leave it here for a few days in case anyone's interested, and then sort it into one of the subpages. Some of these may have articles; some may need to be disambiguated, and as they're sports articles, there's every chance that if they do exist, they're lousy. Ambi 12:41, 16 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Hubert Opperman, cycling, Keith Miller, cricket, Les Darcy, boxing, Evonne Goolagong Cawley, tennis, Peter Thomson, golf, Betty Cuthbert, athletics, Dally Messenger, rugby league, Andrew Gaze, basketball, Haydn Bunton, Australian rules, Ian Thorpe, swimming, Heather McKay, squash, Walter Lindrum, billiards, Ken Rosewall, tennis, Karrie Webb, golf, Herb Elliot, athletics, Dick Reynolds, Australian rules, Rod Laver, tennis, Kostya Tszyu, boxing, Donald Bradman, cricket, Phil Anderson, cycling, Ron Clarke, athletics, David Campese, rugby, Victor Trumper, cricket, Murray Rose, swimming, Marjorie Jackson, athletics, Bob Skilton, Australian rules, Bart Cummings, horse training, John Eales, rugby, Kieran Perkins, swimming, Shane Gould, swimming, Mick Doohan, motorcycling, Tommy Smith, horse training, Scobie Breasley, jockey, Greg Norman, golf, Phar Lap, horse racing, Ted Whitten, Australian rules, Gary Ablett, Australian rules, Margaret Court, tennis, Roy Higgins, horse racing, Mark Richards, surfing, Jack Brabham, motor racing, Lew Hoad, tennis, Layne Beachley, surfing, Dennis Lillee, cricket, Shane Warne, cricket, Leigh Matthews, Australian rules, Cathy Freeman, athletics, Dawn Fraser, swimming, Russell Mockridge, cycling, Shirley Strickland, athletics, John Landy, athletics, Peter Brock, motor racing, Raelene Boyle, athletics, Bill O'Reilly, cricket, Pat Rafter, tennis, Ron Barassi, Australian rules, Lionel Rose, boxing, John Newcombe, tennis, Susie O'Neill, swimming, Melbourne Cricket Ground

National living treasures

Given these lists from The Age, we ought to ensure there's an entry for each of our national living treasures. Mark Hurd 05:59, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)

See also Australian Living Treasures. ;) Ambi 06:26, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Update on Strathfield article

Hello all,

Just a quick update on my Municipality of Strathfield article I've been working on: I'd say it's about 25% done. I've got lots more history, I've added a state electoral boundaries map and included information about the geography of the municipality. I've yet to get a map that shows the area that the LGA itself covers, however I should do this soon. I've also added one table from the Census on breakdown of religion in the LGA. I'll be adding more tables soon. After this I'm going to create a Strathfield, New South Wales (suburb) article that details local landmarks (need to get some pictures!) and give information about the local schools, etc.

Any comments for the main LGA article however?

Ta bu shi da yu 06:58, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Hiatus

I'm going to disappear for the next month while I study for my final VCE exams, but if I'm needed, I'm only an email away.

If anyone's interested, I've got a half-finished list of MPs from 1996 to 1998 at User:Ambi/Drafts. It's done as far down as De-Anne Kelly - the second half needs finishing, and who is and isn't an Hon needs checking. I'd appreciate if someone could finish it off - if not, I'll do so myself at the end of November. Ambi 09:54, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Hey good luck! Is the VCE like NSW's HSC? Incidently, didn't realise you were still at school! - Ta bu shi da yu 10:18, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)

ARIAs by Year

I'm putting up the ARIA winners of 2004 under Australian Recording Industry Association Music Awards of 2004 after the show is finished. I'm gonna use a bit of the grammy articles as templates for nomenclature and categorisation. Noone is laughing at Rove's jokes.--ZayZayEM 10:52, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I'm also struck by a sudden confusion as to wether its ARIA (A = Award), or ARIA award (A = Association), or now my brother tells me ARIA music awards (as opposed to ARIA sporting awards?? - this does seem to be what the venue has on the walls, so I've switched to it). Damn you confusing acronyms, maybe I should create "pointy glass shiny music award" article. --ZZ

I'd say ARIA Award. - Alphax 15:58, Oct 17, 2004 (UTC)

Fianlly got that done, damn brother and crappy Windows.--ZayZayEM 00:33, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I've created Australian Recording Industry Association Music Awards (stub, future list), ARIA Awards/ARIA Music Awards/ARIA Music Awards of 2004 (redirects) and added links to some appropriate articles. Should we use the abbreviated name for the articles themselves? In the context of music awards, I doubt there is another ARIA Music Award - and it would sure make writing those links easier! -- Chuq 01:41, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Just added nominies and a bit more information on the Australian Recording Industry Association Music Awards of 2004, and am planning to use same format to add previous years. But I agree with Chuq - it certainly would make more sense, to just have them as say 'ARIA Music Awards of 2004' at most. To be honest, although I knew ARIA should for something - I had no idea it was 'Australian Recording Industry Association', and I don't think many others will know or even really care that this is the full name. Instead of having to have alot of redirects, I don't see why we just cant have 'ARIA Music Awards of 2004', 'ARIA Music Awards of 2003', etc, etc - Jimm dodd 02:39, Oct 28, 2004 (UTC)

I agree too. Normally, I'd suggest using the full name, but it's so long and no one ever uses it, so in this case, I think it makes sense to just use "ARIA Music Awards of ****". It'd be nice to see these for previous years. Ambi 04:04, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)

For reference, I have moved these articles to ARIA Music Awards and ARIA Music Awards of 2004. -- Chuq 00:20, 2 Nov 2004 (UTC)

New ACOTW

Children overboard affair has made it as the next Aus Collaboration of the Week. I think Victor Chang orked out allright for a not-so-well publicised topic. Remember NPOV and good luck to everyone else with exams at the moment. Only two more left myself. --ZayZayEM 00:33, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Also take a gander at Today's featured article (October listing - 18^th). Ta's gonna be happy.--ZayZayEM 01:42, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Very happy :-) *dances around on one spot* Ta bu shi da yu 13:15, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Unions

There is not a single australian union which has an article. Following is a list of aussie unions, if you know something about one, or are a member of one, please try and create at least a stub. Association of Professional Engineers, Scientists and Managers Australia Australasian Meat Industry Employees Union Australian Education Union Australian Institute of Marine and Power Engineers Australian Licenced Aircraft Engineers Association Australian Manufacturing Workers Union Australian Maritime Officers Union Australian Nursing Federation Australian Professional Footballers' Association Australian Salaried Medical Officers Federation Australian Services Union Australian Workers' Union Australian Writers' Guild Blind Workers Union of Victoria Breweries & Bottleyards Employees Industrial Union of Workers WA Civil Air Operations Officers Association of Australia Club Managers Association Australia Communications, Electrical and Plumbing Union of Australia Community and Public Sector Union Construction, Forestry, Mining and Energy Union Finance Sector Union Flight Attendants Association of Australia - Domestic/Regional Division Flight Attendants' Association of Australia - International Division Funeral and Allied Industries Union of NSW Health Services Union Independent Education Union of Australia Liquor, Hospitality and Miscellaneous Union Maritime Union of Australia Media, Entertainment and Arts Alliance Medical Scientists Association of Victoria National Tertiary Education Union National Union of Workers New South Wales Nurses' Association Police Federation of Australia Rail, Tram and Bus Union Rugby League Professionals Association Salaried Pharmacists Association of WA Union of Workers Shop Distributive and Allied Employees Association Textile, Clothing and Footwear Union of Australia Transport Workers Union Union of Christmas Island Workers United Firefighters Union of Australia Victorian Psychologists Association Incorporated Western Australian Prison Officers Union of Workers Woolclassers Association of Australia

The National Union of Students has an article though. --Roisterer 03:09, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)

But that is a union of students, not of workers. The above list is all the unions affiliated to the ACTU. The bellman 11:07, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Yay! One actual article. Good work. Alphax 14:57, Oct 20, 2004 (UTC)

I've added stuff on the NTEU, the organising model the services model. Someone needs to write Organising Works. Additionally there should be a section on unregistered Australian unions, frex the Shearers in Vic, or the IWW.Fifelfoo 06:05, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC) See also: Unregistered Australian unions Fifelfoo 06:15, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC) See also Industrial manslaughter Fifelfoo 00:16, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I promise to write a brief (based on their official website) for one ACTU union per day. My only condition: some other wikipedian needs to find me five non-ACTU affiliated unions, five unregistered unions, and a list of unions which are and aren't ALP affiliated.Fifelfoo 05:14, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Update: One union a day is going okay. However, I've just come across an excellent resource www.atua.org.au, the trade unions archive reference list, which has an excellent list of Employer and Employee associations which have been parties to awards (ie registered industrial organisations). Basically, this means that there are alot more entries about unions to enter than we previously thought. The official union sites give a good (but mixed, and untrustworthy as APESMA shows) background. ATUA ought to provide historical and ancestral info. But all in all, need more resources. One union a day ought to get it all bulked up though. Add to this the fact that ATUA will let us make employer group stubs. Fifelfoo 03:58, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Australia's Corporate Midgets^W^W^Wgiants

And, just so we don't give the inadvertent impression that the Australian part of the Wikipedia is an exclusively lefty denizen (we're not. really. we promise...), we should also have an article for Australia's most prominent companies. As a starting point, I think every company in the ASX 50 (top 50 listed companies) should be in there on principle. These are:

Alumina Limited, Amcor Limited, AMP Limited, Australia And New Zealand Banking Group Limited, Australian Gas Light Company, AXA Asia Pacific Holdings Limited (part of the global AXA group), BHP Billiton, BlueScope Steel, Boral, Brambles Industries, Coca-Cola Amatil, Coles Myer, Commonwealth Bank of Australia, CSL Limited, CSR Limited, John Fairfax Holdings Limited, Foster's Group Limited, General Property Trust, Insurance Australia Group Limited, James Hardie Industries N.V., Lend Lease Corporation Limited, Macquarie Bank Limited, Macquarie Infrastructure Group (these two are related, obviously), Mayne Group Limited, Mirvac Group, National Australia Bank, Newcrest Mining Limited, News Corporation (there are two different sorts of shares due to the shell games Rupert plays to maintain control of the group), Orica Limited, Origin Energy Limited, Promina Group Limited, Publishing and Broadcasting Limited (Kerry Packer's company), Qantas, QBE Insurance Group Limited, Rinker Group Limited, Rio Tinto Limited, Santos Limited, St George Bank Limited, Stockland, Suncorp-Metway Limited, Tabcorp Holdings Limited, Telecom Corporation Of New Zealand Limited, Telstra Corporation Limited, Wesfarmers Limited, Westfield Group, Westpac Banking Corporation, WMC Resources Limited, Woodside Petroleum, and Woolworths Limited.

Geez, what an exciting, dynamic group of companies. A bunch of domestic-market banks. A couple of merchant banks. Two ex-government telcos. Two big retailers, both of which are too fat and lazy to be globally competitive. A bunch of property developers. A media proprietor/casino operator who got rich on the government teat and has done nothing since. A few miners. A few building products manufacturers, one of whom fled the country to avoid obligations to its workers. One genuinely global media company that has rather revolting political behaviour and is anyway trying to leave as fast as it can. One genuine high-tech manufacturer - CSL. That's it. Embarrassing.--Robert Merkel 12:15, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Hey. At least they aren't as bad in lobbying as they are in the States. At least I hope they're not... - Ta bu shi da yu 13:13, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Hehe. This section should have been "Australia's Corporate Midgets^H^H^H^H^H^H^HGiants - get your control characters right! ;) -- Alphax 14:50, Oct 20, 2004 (UTC)

New from me: Daniel Mannix, St Patrick's Cathedral, Melbourne - it was a nice day for a stroll round St Pat's today. Adam 13:08, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Excellent work! - Ta bu shi da yu 13:13, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Nice to see Cyclone Tracy on the main page today. Great stuff. Filiocht 13:16, Oct 18, 2004 (UTC)

I have made a start on Parliament House, Melbourne (another fine photo if I say so myself), but it needs more work such as some descriptions of the chambers. Adam 14:58, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Defunct AFL/VFL clubs

I've added an entry for Brisbane Bears which needs reviewing (it's my first page). It could probably do with being broken up into sections, I suspect.

Currently Fitzroy Football Club redirects to Brisbane Lions, which is not satisfactory; the club existed for over a century prior to the merger and deserves better. Ditto for University Football Club which participated in the VFL for eight seasons at the beginning of last century and has no entry at all. Can anyone assist with information on these two clubs? --The Brain of Morbius 14:01, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Also, the Fitzroy Football Club still exists as a separate legal entity from the Brisbane Lions Football Club. Adam 11:58, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)

South Melbourne Football Club currently redirects to the Sydney Swans - although this club moved rather than merged. Does it deserve its own page? Also I think I have some info on University Football Club and I'll see if I can get it up. --bainer 05:25, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)

It's my feeling that as South Melbourne renamed itself to Sydney Swans that a redirection is more appropriate in its case. Good to hear about the University info! --The Brain of Morbius 14:06, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Article needs saving.

Australian Egg Corporation Limited - it's a Federal Stat body. Please vote to keep on Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Australian Egg Corporation Limited. Thanks. - Ta bu shi da yu 12:16, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I had a little go at NPOVing it (because it did read rather like an add), and adding a little more info. Anyone who knows anything else please add it. The bellman 10:36, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Australian Government

We currently have no article under Australian government or Government of Australia (REDIRECTS to Politics of Australia.

Is this an issue or not. I think it is, what do you think?--ZayZayEM 03:19, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Yeah, it's an issue. I agree with Adam's reasoning that there is a big difference between government and politics, no matter how related they may be. -- BenM 03:57, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Oh, I also made a bit of a mistake ... I added a redirect from Australian Government to Government of Australia on the (incorrect) assumption that redirects would cascade. Obviously, though, this will be resolved when the Government page is a seperated article. -- BenM 04:12, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Articles to merge in Todo list

Any objections to having a "to merge" section? I hope not, I've just made one in "Other", called "To merge or cleanup". This would be another good place to add things needing attention. -- Alphax 14:55, Oct 20, 2004 (UTC)

Pic of the Day

Anyone want a Redback spider?

Picture of the day

The redback spider is a potentially dangerous spider found throughout Australia. A successful bite from a female redback injects a neurotoxin into the blood stream. Individuals bitten often describe the bite as extremely painful. In September 2004, inmates at Grafton maximum security prison in New South Wales were found to be keeping redback spiders. Media reported a prisoner's allegation that other inmates had been breeding the spiders, milking them, and injecting the venom for a high. However, the authorities uncovered no supporting evidence (e.g. syringes), and concluded the spiders were kept simply as pets.

Photo credit: Fir0002
Archive - Nominate new image

-- Alphax 15:10, Oct 20, 2004 (UTC)

The Makers

The articles about this band and its members are extremely stubby. I'm also doubting notability, but since I'm not Australian, I can't be sure, can you guys help out? [[User:MacGyverMagic|Mgm|^(talk)]] 20:25, Oct 20, 2004 (UTC)

If it was formed by former Split Enz band members, then it's notable. - Ta bu shi da yu 06:18, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Amen brother The bellman 02:42, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Pre-1996 Members of Parliament lists

I'm having trouble finding lists of members of parliament for the pre-Howard era. Both australianpolitics.com and Adam Carr's summaries only begin in 1996, and constructing a list by going through individual seats would be a fairly painful experience. Anyone have any other solutions? Ambi 06:55, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Members of the House of Reps since 1901: House of Reps; Members of the Senate since 1901: Senate; and just for kicks, those who have served in both chambers: Both chambers. --bainer 23:52, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Sorry, I should've been clearer. We've already got a list of every MP. What we don't have is lists of MPs, sorted by parliament, (i.e. Members of the Australian House of Representatives, 1998-2001). I'm trying to find an alternative to manually having to track down sitting members for parliaments prior to 1996, division by division. Ambi 23:58, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)

There are complete lists of MPs and Senators elected at each election since 1901 at my website. As you should know by now, my website is the most complete archive of this kind of stuff in existence. See the index here. Adam 00:03, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Where are they, though? There's results by division, and lists of senators, but there doesn't appear to be full lists of those elected (for the earlier elections, anyway - there was for 1996-2004). Ambi 02:35, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Adam's images/Australian images in general

New from me: here are some photos which people can use for articles:

[images moved to Wikipedia:List of images/Places/Australia/Melbourne for brevity]

Adam 00:15, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Using Adam's images, which he has released into the public domain, I've begun digging up all the obviously-free images related to Melbourne, and working on the gallery at Wikipedia:List of images/Places/Australia/Melbourne. I've got all that I could find for now, but if anyone knows of any others, feel free to add them. More importantly, it'd be good to add pages for all of the other major cities. Ambi 04:49, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Australian immigration

There doesn't seem to be many articles about Australias immigration policies. I've created Woomera Detention Centre and Temporary protection visa stubs, and Category:australian immigration. Not sure if the category was the right way to go about it though. Let me know what you think.... - Borofkin 05:37, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)

New from me: rewrite of Shrine of Remembrance, with photos. If anyone wants photos of places or landmarks around inner Melbourne to go with articles, please let me know. Adam 07:39, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Australian version of Monopoly

I've recently added the streets in the Australian version of Monopoly to the table at Localised versions of the Monopoly game. Although this in itself doesn't make the streets notable, I presume they were notable enough to be selected for inclusion in the game by Parker Brothers. There are 2-3 landmark "streets" from each capital city, plus railroads and utilities, 28 locations all up - only 8 of them have articles so far! -- Chuq 23:31, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Just one thing - as far as the stations go, is it actually "Sydney Station" in the game? Because the closest thing to that would be Central... Ambi 00:55, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)

"Sydney Station" (as well as Perth Station and Adelaide Station) are the names used in the game. I don't know if they are real or not - they seemed sort of generic, but the board *does* have various rail company logos that looked like ones I had seen in real life. (For people who haven't checked the list, the 4th station is Flinders Street Station) -- Chuq 01:25, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Canberra bushfires of 2003

While on one of my breaks, I've just started this article off. There's a ton of material around online - ABC Radio Canberra, The Age and the Sydney Morning Herald all have archives of their stories right through the fires. Anyway, I'm aiming right from the start to get this one featured, and I'd appreciate any help anyone can get. I'll get it featured eventually, but with a bit of help, might be able to get there sooner. Ambi 10:55, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Steele Hall

I've just completed an entry on Steele Hall, which could use some TLC. Being o/s means I have had to rely on the internet and my memory to write the article and neither can be overly trusted as a definitive source of information. I think Hall's noteworthiness would stem from him being the only person to have held the positions of state premier, federal MHR and Senator (for three different parties, no less), but I haven't added this to the article for fear that someone else has also achieved this. So, if someone could have peruse the article, I'd be one happy chappy. Cheers, --Roisterer 05:53, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)

be careful with NPOV The bellman 11:08, 2004 Oct 30 (UTC)

Law enforcement

Currently there are few articles on Australian law enforcement agencies, there are articles on the New South Wales Police and the Australian Federal Police, but the following are missing: Queensland Police, Victoria Police, South Australia Police, Western Australia Police, Northern Territory Police, Australian High Tech Crime Centre, Australian Crime Commission, National Crime Authority --nixie 13:16, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Ack. I'll have to get working on Victoria Police, for one - this coverage is terrible. Ambi 00:08, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I've just created a page for Victoria Police, but it needs a lot of work. I've also created a new category to tie all these together.

isn't NCA defunct? ACC was its replacement. i think. Xtra 00:40, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Yep, the ACC replaced the NCA is 2003--nixie 03:48, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I missed the Australian Capital Territory Police, Australian Securities and Investments Commission, Australian Customs Service, Australian Attorney General's Department and the Australian Security Intelligence Organisation.--nixie 04:04, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)

The Australian Capital Territory Police where amalgamated into the AFP in 1979. Martyman 04:55, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)

The ACC doesn't know that- I got the list from their 2004 publication :)--nixie 05:05, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)

That's strange. Actually this link lists the ACT police seperately from the AFP too. But policing here in the ACT is definately carried out by an the community policing arm of the AFP. [2] [3]

Also Tasmania Police. Securiger 05:25, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Template for police articles- New Zealand Police and Metropolitan Police Service are two of the better organised Police articles. Should we have an summary article Australian Police or Australian Law Enforcement that explains how police are funded etc, that links to the specific articles--nixie 05:50, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I agree - I think a summary article, along the lines you suggested, (perhaps at Law enforcement in Australia would be a wise step. Ambi 05:54, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Update: the Law enforcement in Australia directory page is up, and all the stubs for the various agencies are also done (and they all have links to external pages-so it should be easy to them out flesh out)--nixie 00:13, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)

The Dreamtime vs Aboriginal Mythology

Australian Aboriginal Mythology is currently a deadlink referenced to by Australian Aborigine.~~Would there be any crying (or chasing with torches) if I suggested it should simply be a redirect to Dreamtime (mythology)?~~--ZayZayEM 07:59, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I'm no expert, but isn't the latter a subset of the former? Ambi 08:14, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Nevermind Australian Aboriginal mythology (little 'm') is an article. I don't think there is much distinction between Dreamtime and other myths. Dreamtime isn't just a time, its a place as well – and beyond a setting, the events themselves (and sometimes even a being).--ZayZayEM 09:56, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I see your point, but I think it might be wise to have a seperate article discussing the dreamtime, and all that that entails, specifically. Ambi 11:19, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)

AFI Awards

Would someone be able to take care of creating AFI Awards? It's currently a redirect to Australian Film Institute, which isn't very good, and they're somewhat topical, with Somersault sweeping the field and all. Ambi 08:14, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Halloween

Halloween states: Halloween is a holiday celebrated on the night of 31 October, usually by children dressing in costumes and going door-to-door collecting candy. It is celebrated in much of the Western world, though most commonly in the United States, to which Irish, Scots and other immigrants brought older versions of the tradition in the 19th century.

I'm not sure if much of the Western world is correct. I never trick-or-treated as a child, and have never been accosted by kids at my door wanting lollies (just as well, cause I wouldn't be giving them any!). I didn't think it happened in Australia. Am I wrong? -- Chuq 23:41, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I don't know of anyone going trick or treating in Australia. I went to one halloween party as a kid, but I think that's the exception, and it was realy just an excuse to have a party I think, not traditional halloween as Americans think of it.

Yeah, I've never heard of any Halloween celebrations in Oz - except maybe theme nights at the pub! - but then we're not "much of the Western world". I'm pretty sure it's widespread in Catholic countries, so adding the US is probably enough to even make it "most" rather than "much". Securiger 23:58, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I went trick or treating once as child and we tend to have trick or treaters turn up at the door every 2 or 3 Halloweens. Canberra may be a bit of an exception to the rest of Australia, maybe due to the reasonably large numbers of foriegn diplomats here. Martyman 00:17, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I recall it happening once when I was a kid (in an inner Eastern suburb of Melbourne). Though this was in the mid to late '80s (prior to the fall of Tricontinental) when there were a lot of American influences (and American money) in the area. --BenM 04:04, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)

When I live in a House, I get one or two (very hopeful, very young) packs of kiddies asking for a cough up. When I live in a flat, nada. Good side: the kids are walking around (with parental supervision) asking for a free hand-out. Better side: there's only one set a night, and they don't expect anything. This is for both suburban Newcastle, and inner-city Sydney. Fifelfoo 04:46, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Its freakin taking off like nothing else in my neck of the woods (Hurstville) before two years ago id never seen it, now suddenly EVERYONE is doing it. I was at a party last night (just a random piss-up, rather than a halloween party), and when some brats turned up trick or treating we just stared at them till they left. Damned american traditions, oh well that is what comes of living in the 52nd state. The bellman 01:43, 2004 Nov 1 (UTC)

Trick or Treating doesn't seem to have taken off – but what self-respecting Aussie wouldn't take on another excuse to get pissed in a field in the middle of the night with bonfires and half-dressed females? Halloween per se hasn't really been big in Australia except as the occasioanal commercial gimmick for costumes, candy and US TV specials. Perhaps conservative Christian origins of Australia, that weren't ousted by a freedom embracing consitution, is the main reason behind this?--ZayZayEM 01:58, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Well, the US is an awful lot more conservative and Christian by nature than Oz (remember which was founded by convicts, and which was founded by Puritans?) I think that halloween is starting to get a bit more penetration here thanks to the influx of American culture - we've been trick-or-treated over the last two years, which has never happened previously. It's fair to say that it's not a generally celebrated thing, though. Lacrimosus 09:48, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Members of State Parliament

I've been making an attempt to write seperate articles on a few more seperate parliaments over the last couple of days, so we now have Victorian Legislative Council and New South Wales Legislative Assembly, on top of my earlier Victorian Legislative Assembly and Chuq's Tasmanian House of Assembly and Tasmanian Legislative Council. All of them have matching lists of MPs - and this is where some assistance would really come in handy (although if anyone wants to write parliament articles and member lists for other states, I'll be eternally grateful).

We have articles on four members of the Victorian Legislative Assembly, two members of the Victorian Legislative Council, two members of the New South Wales Legislative Assembly, two members of the Tasmanian House of Assembly, and one member of the Tasmanian Legislative Council. We don't even have articles on the NSW Opposition Leader, John Brogden, or the Tasmanian Opposition Leader, Rene Hidding. It'd be really nice to see some of these people getting articles. Ambi 09:13, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Trivia: The sole member of the TLC with an article is Jim Wilkinson. He is better know for... well, see the article. He also looks a lot like John Cleese :) -- Chuq 11:39, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)