Talk:Ogygia

Ogygia is not Atlantis

Notice the passive tense of non-attribution, a flag for bogus statements, and the generic attribution of "others":

"Ogygia was believed to have been an island in the Mediterranean that sank following a huge and powerful earthquake, which shaked the area before the bronze age.

"It was also believed that Ogygia was a part of sunken Atlantis.

"Others say that the island of Ogygia still exists and that the island is now known as the island of Gozo, the second largest island in the Maltese archipelago. These people claim that this confirms the existence of Atlantis and that the Maltese archipelago, together with some other islands, is the residue of Atlantis."

This has little to do with Ogygia, which exists in the Odyssey alone. Wetman 06:04, 21 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Nitpick: the passive is a voice, not a tense.

But yes, Ogygia has nothing to do with Atlantis, nor should this article confidently state that the Odyssey describes the Atlantic Ocean. Akhilleus 04:36, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Ogygia presumably existed in the 2nd millennium BC. Atlantis was lost presumably seven millennia earlier. So clearly Ogygia is not Atlantis.

Ogygia was also visited by the Argonauts. According to Argonautica, Argonauts travelled in the Atlantic Ocean.

The dispute as to whether Odysseus travelled beyond the Pillars of Hercules is almost as old as Homer. Plutarch was one of the last priests of Apollo at the Oracle of Delphi and he would probably had access to secret texts of the Oracle. Therefore I take that he has backed up his account by other sources. Odysses (☜) 15:16, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Atlantis was at war with Athens for "9000 years", so it must have existed in the second millennium BC 2A04:4540:AA03:7000:1DD1:6866:8AB1:B32C (talk) 11:03, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

My point is that the article shouldn't definitely state that Ogygia is in the Atlantic. It's fine to say that some people think he did, but clearly not everyone agrees about this. As you point out, not everyone in antiquity thought that Odysseus travelled outside of the Mediterranean, and many modern classical scholars think that Odysseus' wanderings have little to do with the geography of the real world.

Still, the article's statement that "The river-stream of Oceanus quoted by Homer can be identified today as the Gulf stream" makes it sound like a definite idenification has been made.

Where is Ogygia mentioned in the Argonautica?

I don't think you'd find too many scholars agree with the idea that Plutarch had access to "secret texts", but in any case they'd be unverifiable to us Wikipedia editors.

Something that would be good is to have more sources in the article: perhaps to quote Homer's description, but also to have some modern sources. What source says that the ocean's current=the Gulf Stream? What source says that Maltese patriots think that Gozo=Ogygia? Akhilleus 06:41, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

What Some Greeks Believe

If it is of any interest to anyone, it is the belief of most Greeks in the region of the Ionian Islands that Othonoi, the westernmost point of Greece, is Ogygia. The cave located on the island is known as Kalypso Cave. This was the birthplace of my grandparents. There is no documented evidence, and I am stating this for no other reason than to share information! Othonoi is one of several islands that are located northwest of Corfu. Only Othonoi, Erikousa, and Mathrace are inhabited today. I have been there and it is a lovely place. I could not see the cave; it is visible only by boat and the sea was not cooperative. Maybe next time!

Forcasey

Ogygia

In his book "Ulysses Found", plausibly reconstructing the voyage of Odysseus back to Ithaca, for various reasons author Ernlie Bradford suggests that Ogygia was Malta.

Also to build a large raft Ulsses needed some largish timbers and of the various contenders, only Malta had a large enough area to support large tree growth. AT Kunene (talk) 20:48, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

Undue weight for fringe theories?

Right now the article cites two sources claiming that either the Romans or the Carthaginians had transatlantic contacts. I don't know how to fit this in, but I think the article should at least note that most scholars doubt that. 96.241.155.5 (talk) 01:31, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

Ogygia is a Poly-Dimensional Metaphorical Reference to the South Pole, Styx, the Underworld

The ancient authors make this clear, and the article does not discuss properly this essential interlinking connection of esoterically-coded mythological metaphor. Virgil (Georgics, 1.242f.) "One pole is ever high above us, while the other, beneath our feet, is seen of black Styx and the shades infernal" - thus, Styx flows in sight of the other pole, logically. Ogygia is closely associated designation for this multidimensionally-meaningful, cosmological and geographical and "hermetic" zone. Ogygia is linked to Kronos directly, who sleeps in the "antarctic" lower hemisphere. The medievals carried the same idea in the Arthurian myth-theme of King Arthur of confused messianic variety, who is supposed to one day mystically reawaken with a mysterious "antipodean" war-band. Ancient Greek authors, both exoteric and esoteric, make it clear: Ogygia is a multidimensional metaphor for both the Hadean regions linked to the South Pole, and simultaneously the trans-material dimension of "entropic" or "helical" energies, the ancients associated with the underworld and the South Pole, and the "unheroic dead". The astrological connections, esp. to Saturn, the article also leaves defined. The word itself is used by Hesiod in a variable, contextually-discerete way in the context of describing Hades and Styx in the underworld, cosmologically linked to the South Pole. The gods abhor the ogygion region, both under and beyond the earth, etc. Esoteric authors emphasized the esoteric meaning. More mundane-minded authors emphasized the more geographical meaning. No necessary contradiction exists. E.g. Krates of Pergaemon in interpreting Homer, argued Odysseus sailed from Circe's island to Hades as a voyage from the Tropic of Capricorn to the South Pole. The Oannes of Berossos is Ea, that is, Saturn-Kronos, whose town is Canopus-Eridu, meaning, the very depth of the sea, the Antarctic waters once in the "golden age" Hyperborean and paradisiacal. Dante is clever in transmitting the esoteric tradition in making the lake of Cocytus, and the lowest sphere of Hell, a region, not of flames, but a region in which Lucifer is FROZEN IN ICE. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:4CD0:1420:D194:9A43:33BB:3CE6 (talk) 15:01, 9 May 2022 (UTC)

Modern ppl do not understand the ancient mind-set. Basically, there is the "top", connected to the Pole Staar, and in terms of their world-view, where mathematics, astronomy and mysticism are intertwined, is is "Time Zero", where "history", life, our human race, all started long long ago. At the opposite top, there is depth of waters below, whose astronomical counterpart here is Canopus. THIS is the meeaning of "Ogygia", not this foolish talk of our modern nation-state islands in the Mediterranean. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:4CD0:1420:D194:9A43:33BB:3CE6 (talk) 15:17, 9 May 2022 (UTC)

Can one of you wikipedias editors put this into the article ins some way, as, factually, this is the truth about the real meaning of the term. I know not editing and speak English mediocrely. 2600:1700:4CD0:1420:D194:9A43:33BB:3CE6 (talk) 15:26, 9 May 2022 (UTC)

Etymology

Some associate the word Ogygia etymologically with Okeanos (Oceanus), and some derive it from a Semitic (Phoenician / Hebrew) word in the context of "Circle": Hogeg, s.a.: chug, chagag --109.193.69.76 (talk) 17:54, 1 October 2023 (UTC)