Talk:Sisu

This article was nominated for deletion. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination:

Keep, 23 June 2009, see discussion.
Keep, 4 Mar 2005, see discussion.

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Popular culture, a project which is currently considered to be inactive.Popular cultureWikipedia:WikiProject Popular cultureTemplate:WikiProject Popular culturePopular culture articles

Michigan Mid‑importance

	Michigan portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Michigan, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the U.S. state of Michigan on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.MichiganWikipedia:WikiProject MichiganTemplate:WikiProject MichiganMichigan articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Finland High‑importance

	Finland portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Finland, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Finland on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.FinlandWikipedia:WikiProject FinlandTemplate:WikiProject FinlandFinland articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Psychology

	Psychology portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Psychology, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Psychology on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PsychologyWikipedia:WikiProject PsychologyTemplate:WikiProject Psychologypsychology articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

VfD outcome

Per the VfD discussion now archived at Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Sisu, this article has been kept. --TenOfAllTrades | Talk 03:47, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Winter War a an example of Sisu

The article seems to miss examples. Sisu is a well known concept also in many of the other Nordic countries and to me the Winter War where the undersized Finland held up against the Soviet Union seems like a good example. Any better examples? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.164.89.164 (talk) 21:34, 8 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

SISU stands for "Shanghai International Studies University". Please refer to the link. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Connsfinest (talk • contribs) 18:34, 7 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"Sisu" was also the name of a "Suomic" trading ship in Heinlein's "Citizen of the Galaxy." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.114.137.41 (talk) 23:40, 24 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Examples? Sitting bare-assed on an anthill is a well-known one. Finns are pretty big on self-deprecating humor and having sisu in no way requires also having intelligence. --Kizor 01:20, 24 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Strength

I'm removing the link to the disambiguation page strength, under the guideline that disambiguation pages should not be directly linked. I'm not sure which sense of "strength" was intended here, so I'm not substituting a different link, but leaving that to someone with more knowledge of the subject matter. Sanguinity 21:23, 22 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well known Saying?

In Finland, there's a well-known saying that the Finnish culture can be condensed in three S's: "sisu, sauna and Sibelius". Or, alternatively, "sisu, sauna and salmiakki." (The Finnish word for Finland, Suomi, also starts with an S).

This is completely irrelevant to the article, and it's not even that well known "Saying" that it would deserve to be in here Arsestar 01:33, 4 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Anyone have a source for that? --Fang Aili ^talk 01:45, 4 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sisu as fatalism?

I like the relation of sisu to stoicism, but I also think that the entry could be made more precise by making some mention of the fatalism of Finnish culture. I think that, in some ways, the term sisu is (justifiably or not) related to the "depressive character" of the Finns as a people. Whether or not we agree with that assessment, I think it points to the incredible inappropriateness of relating sisu to toughness in the "macho" sense of the term. Robin502 23:54, 28 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

SISU in the other meanings

SISU is(or was)a military transport manufacturer.Troop transport vehicle which they manucature(d) was called "panssari sisu"(armored sisu) or "PASI" which is abbreviation of panssari sisu. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.223.26.207 (talk • contribs) — Preceding undated comment added 13:45, 17 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The disambiguation page linked in the first line will take You to both Sisu Auto and the specific XA-180. I'm not sure if that's what You are trying to mention? G®iffen 18:40, 17 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well, if this were a site in Latin, it would best translate as "virtu". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.0.90.118 (talk) 16:04, 17 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Anthropological interpretation; concept existing among other cold-weather peoples

These assertions should be sourced or removed. They could be true, and it would be interesting if they were, but there is no way of telling. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.84.246.79 (talk) 07:03, 6 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Seeing as Swedish seems to have no equivalent, I think it's false. --80.216.172.33 (talk) 01:25, 5 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This is fallacious logic. Just because Swedish has no equivalent doesn´t mean that it cannot exist among potentially all other ´cold weather peoples´. Like if Swedish does not have it then it must not exist, eh? -It would be great to have some other examples, however. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.234.68.129 (talk) 02:04, 29 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Inconsistencies

Usage of the term in the article is inconsistent, as "sisu" is used with quotation marks, without them, in italics, without italics, in lowercase, and with the first "s" capitalized like a proper noun. We should be using only one method. Anyone know which would be best? Mbinebri ^{talk ←} 19:43, 29 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Probably in italics. Bearian (talk) 21:28, 29 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing, as foreign words are often denoted that way. Mbinebri ^{talk ←} 21:32, 29 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

link to wiktionary tenacity

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tenacious

dunno how to add this, but tenacity in wikipedia gives something different! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 49.49.11.59 (talk) 03:39, 19 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I came here to wonder why the word "tenacity" isn't used in the attempted definition. Tenacity is continuing to do something despite setbacks. If sisu involves that plus X, Y, and Z (taciturn stoicism / no complaints; courage; and resilience?), then that word should be used, because "tenacity" seems to cover a fair amount of what's being conveyed, and "stoic tenacity" might cover more than half if I'm reading it right. Kilyle (talk) 13:01, 16 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Article too long, rambling? Cleanup needed?

The Finnish Wikipedia entry for this is only three paragraphs! This article seems overly wordy. It's also rather disorganized. Really what it needs to be is - a concise definition from a reliable source (it's not in Webster's) - etymology and history, there's a good discussion on the German wikipedia - examples of usage in English, incl. the Upper Peninsula. - examples of usage among Finns, and a discussion of importance to Finns (suomi, sauna, sisu...)

The Swedish wikipedia doesn't even have an entry for this, neither do Norwegian and Icelandic. Sweden and Finland have a long history together, with a Swedish-speaking minority in Finland.

The referencing, though copious, is pretty spotty. Some statements have, redundantly, three refs where other quite lengthy passages are entirely unreferenced, e.g. most of "Use in the Upper Peninsula"

The use of See Also is excessive. What is Sananmuunnos doing there? This should be cleaned up and where relevant integrated into the article, per wikipedia policy. Same for External Links.

I propose to tidy it up as described above. Thoughts? --Cornellier (talk) 21:06, 5 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

It's symptomatic. We get it, Sisu is a specifically Finnish kind of stoicism. This includes an aspect of taciturnity, so it is fitting the Finnish article should be short. Meanwhile, the Enlish page tried to explain the term about ten times in a row, apparently assuming that (a) the reader is completely unable to grasp the concept and (b) that this may be improved if you just keep throwing text at him. Whoever wrote this must also have been completely unfamiliar with the concept of "semantic field" (it's like grit, but not necessarily with passion, as is the case with that definition of "grit" I found somewhere...). It's just the Finnish word for stoicism and being a Finnish word it is used by Finns of Finns and so describes whatever kind of stoicism is common in Finland. The concept of being "stoic" is intangibly peculiar to the Stoics, the concept of being "laconic" is intangibly peculiar to the Spartans, and the concept of sisu is intangibly Finnish. It will be enough to say "stoicism" and "Finnish national character" and let the reader judge from the examples given.

I just note that national character redirects to ethnic stereotype, well done Wikipedia. --dab (𒁳) 16:25, 30 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Sisu in Estonian

The word sisu has also a meaning in the Estonian language, partly overlapping its Finnish counterpart but being less exuberant in what it stands for. Do you think the Estonian explanation should to be added to this article or a new one should be created? Vulc (talk) 19:44, 2 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, Estonian should be included. It's relevant that the term exists in the most closely related national language, and of interest that there's a difference in meaning/usage. If this is accurate

In some related languages (such as Estonian), sisu still means the ‘inner part or content’, and Finnish is the only language where the word evolved to describe a character trait. ^[1]

something brief along those lines could be included in the Meaning section, if possible with a good print reference. Barefoot through the chollas (talk) 15:22, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ https://sisulab.com/2015/04/10/the-origins-of-sisu/

Lead refs

Ok, I tagged two sentences w/ (IIRC)

"{{See also| talk page, at <nowiki> [[ talk:Sisu#Lead refs|Lead refs]]}}, and it's time for me to "pay the piper" (which should of course render as

)

-- except that I'm pretty sure I needed to go back and add the vertical-stroke character ("|") following "See <color = red>also</color = red>", in order to unbreak the syntax. Why, you may ask, to which I reply" hopefully I now, and will still will, remember, after retun'g to this new talk secn, easily and precisely how to explain why this effort was worth my trouble. If I can't, mebbe another experienced (tho -- in 'my case'  --now recently retired at-my-own-request)  admin will step into the breach.

Now, look: I've been writing wiki markup far longer, I expect, than most admin, even tho many -- no matter whether over more or fewer years -- surely have become both more capable, more error-free, and simply faster at it).

--JerzyA (talk) 12:49, 14 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I couldn't understand anything about this. What exactly were you trying to do, and what is it you're trying to express here? JIP | Talk 21:18, 19 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Sisu is "likely a cognate of Indian term vīrya"

This claim needs a citation to a serious source and some indication of how Finno-Permic /ˈsisu/ could possibly be cognate with Indo-European vīrya. Mapping /v-r/ to /s-s/ is much too massive a leap in diachronic phonology to just be declared likely. Deriving vīrya from Verethragna requires a good bit of phonological magic as well -- what happened to thragn? It could be that cognacy and derivation aren't really intended here. If that's the case, it's easy to massage the text into coherence. But if there is no claim to actual cognacy with vīrya, there's little or no reason to mention that term or Verethragna here at all. Barefoot through the chollas (talk) 15:41, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I removed the spurious claim, per WP:BOLLOCKS. It is a nonsensical allegation made by a known vandal, a hoax, bordering on vandalism. Bearian (talk) 20:38, 2 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

"cultural significance" and "in popular culture"

Right now there are two headings with the above names, the latter being subsumed under the proper names section. I think they should be combined, though the rest of the proper name section can probably stand on its own? natemup (talk) 09:45, 21 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

[1] ttps://sisulab.com/2015/04/10/the-origins-of-sisu/

[1]