Talk:Communist Party of Greece

NPOV

Is this really the only communist party in the world who hasn't supported dictatorship and atrocities in the name of communism, even though they were a part of comintern? If this is so, that's probably noteworthy but needs a source. If not, it's highly POV to not mention any such criticism, --OpenFuture (talk) 20:20, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

The KKE doesn't support atrocities in the name of communism but it does deny that many of them even happening, they support Stalin and Lenin and they believe that both of them did a good job even though they are often considered brutal dictators who suppressed democratic rights in order to stay in power. Find a trust worthy source that agrees with you if you think that and then maybe we will do something about it but until then it is not NPOV at all. TURTLOS (talk) 23:27, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

Really. Brad 2001:56A:73FC:EF00:F320:7F5A:9866:917C (talk) 14:19, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Have either of you gone and made a laundry list of every support of dictatorships and atrocities of every political party in the world? This list seems to be missing on the (US) Republican and Democrat parties. The only non-NPOV here is your own. 66.213.15.16 (talk) 17:50, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

Just looked up UK Conservative and Labour Parties. Nothing there about their support for Pinochet of Chile, Mohammad Reza Shah Pahlavi of Iran, Saddam Hussein, Husni Mubarak of Egypt, Ibn Saud family, Greek right, etc, etc, etc. Bougatsa42 (talk) 04:00, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

Change the political position

I and others have provided at least 4 sources that KKE is a left-wing party and not a far-left party and now i try to edit this and someone has removed the ability to do this. it's completely undemocratic and authoritarian to do so. Please change it back and ban the user/ administrator that did this.

--Spartacus Marat (talk) 07:36, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

I don't see any kind of page protection? You should be able to edit the article. – Kosm1fent 04:44, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Nor does the article say that it is a far-left party anywhere. Am I blind? --RJFF (talk) 16:52, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

The article needs protection against the far-left propaganda. --Greek Transistor (talk) 01:19, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

These distinctions are completly meaningless, and I think should not be in use in an encyclopedia. --Soman (talk)

05:54, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

KKE rejects the "far-left" categorization, and this is very important. --Greek Transistor (talk) 10:04, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

This is really a pseudo-issue, and we have similar problems across many articles. My stand is that, if in doubt, left/right labels be removed altogether. They have no inherent value and are not an apt ground for categorizations. The article clearly states that KKE is a communist party with Marxism-Leninism as its ideological foundation. That is the more relevant and more verifiable aspect that we ought to focus on. --Soman (talk) 11:07, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

I agree, but I believe this text is useful to appear whenever someone try to put the "far-left" label. --Greek Transistor (talk) 20:33, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

The situation we currently have with Greece political parties is inconsistent and absurd. SYRIZA is labelled as ″Left-wing to Far-left″ (I'm not calling for changing this!) whereas KKE that according to serious sources is as far-left as a party can be (good sources identify it as a party of the most diehard communists [1]) and according to just any source that makes sense is to the left of SYRIZA, cannot be characterized as far-left because one or two editors oppose it. Also, LAOS is labelled here as 'far-right' with 2 sources provided, despite the fact that it is clearly more mainstream (having recently participated in the government of national unity) than KKE and its extremist character is not so obvious.Pan Miacek and his crime-fighting dog (woof!) 18:34, 26 December 2013 (UTC)

Well, it's a bit more complex. Unlike KKE, SYRIZA does contain some elements of the Greek far-left (i.e. groups that emerged in the 1960s/1970s in opposition to the established left). Most notable of these factions is KOE. KKE is very much, and has been for decades, the established left party in Greece. Anyhow, these labels should be removed from the infobox format, they add no encyclopedic information just pov. (my five cents on Greek politics would be: Far-left: KKE(m-l), ANTARSYA, Left: KKE, SYRIZA, Center-left: PASOK, Right: ND, Far-right: XA) --Soman (talk) 23:57, 26 December 2013 (UTC)

Syriza is a big tent party with member and factions from the Far left sush as the Anticapitalist Political Group (ΑΠΟ)to the liberal and social democratic centre such as Union of the Democratic Centre (EDIK) while the kke is a left wing to far-left communist party.

No Eurosceptic? Is there any more eurosceptic party right now in Europe than KKE? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.195.166.116 (talk) 20:45, 10 June 2014 (UTC)

The KKE is Far-Left by definition, Communism is a Far-Left ideaology. I know the party doesn't describe itself as far-left but wikipedia is a neutral site, golden dawn doesn't call itself far-right but that is what it is listed as because that is what it really is. The KKE doesn't refer to itself as far-left because in greece the term far-left is mainly used for anarchists, maoists and trotskyists but all three of these groups are just as left wing as the KKE, whether or not the a party is established or not has little to do with it's position on the spectrum. TURTLOS (talk) 01:10, 21 December 2014 (UTC)

No, there are no absolutes in terms of left-right labels. It all depends on the national or local context. A left-wing Democrat from the US would be a right-wing politician by many European standards. KKE is an established party in Greek politics, and until the surge of Syriza, it was the dominant party of the Greek left. --Soman (talk) 13:39, 21 December 2014 (UTC)

Your are right about the national/local/linguistic context but it doesn't really matter what the parties are considered in there local nations, wikipedia is a international web site, now if we were on Greek wikipedia you'd would be right considering that this party is left wing by greek standars but by english standards the kke is far-left. Your point about the left wing democrat is right but as i just mentioned this site is international and party ideaologies should be written according to dictionary definition not local opinion and just like in my previous statement, whether or not the a party is established or not has little to do with it's position on the spectrum. TURTLOS (talk) 23:20, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

By what standard do you say that 'internationally' KKE would be classified as 'far-left'? That's just a made-up opinion. Nor is there any 'dictionary definition' that backs up your point. --Soman (talk) 12:30, 25 December 2014 (UTC)

I made nothing up, it's not my just opinion, im not an anti-communist and by dictionary definition i wasn't saying that it is in the dictionary i meant that communism is a political ideology on the far-left and that what the communist party should be considered as. the kke doesnt call it self far-left so they dont look like extremeists but that doesnt mean they aren't ideologically far-left. In most nations Communism is considered far-left and is thus considered as far-left internationally. TURTLOS (talk) 13:13, 25 December 2014 (UTC)

Here are some citations

"Far"(Right) is used for the political position of Golden Dawn in English Wikipedia. It is wrong to use the same word "far" to characterize as Far-Left the political position of KKE. Georgopa (talk) 10:32, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

"Far' (Right) has nothing to do with far-left, sure the KKE is not as radical as Golden Dawn but that doesn't really make a difference. The Popular Orthodox Rally (LAOS) is also described as Far-Right sometimes and the majority of them are no where near Golden Dawn. I don't see how using the word far is wrong just because a group more extreme is characterized as far. TURTLOS (talk) 01:20, 29 December 2014 (UTC)

Why the other communist parties in English Wikipedia are considered left-wing and only the Greek one must be considered far-left? E.g. the Portuguese,that I looked.Georgopa (talk) 06:29, 29 December 2014 (UTC)

Because most Communist parties these days are more moderate and reformist than the KKE. The Socialist Party of Latvia which is probably the closest thing to the KKE in the EU is considered Far-Left. TURTLOS (talk) 02:32, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

Greeks know better their political parties than foreigners. They put left-wing not far-left for the political position of KKE in Greek Wikipedia. Georgopa (talk) 04:45, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

As an ethnic Greek and Greek speaker who has been to Greece three times and has friends/relatives who are supporters of the KKE I think that i know a fair bit about this topic. I think it is pretty low of you to just say that Greeks automatically no more about their political parties than foriegners. What you stated is an unfair categorisation based on where i live and where i come from and possibly your own xenophobia. Your probably a KKE supporter (based on the fact that you try defend one of their self-categorisations so vigourasly) but i know that this kind of judgement of a foreigner is something that a true communist and/or a true KKE supporters would see as a violation of communism's internationalist principles. I think someone with your nationalist attitude would be more suited for a party like Golden Dawn or maybe LAOS if your not as hardcore. On top of all this you have not even demonstrated in what way i have a misconception about the KKE. I think it is you who has the misconception of the KKE, you compared Europes other communist party to the KKE but anyone who knows about the KKE know that is is nothing like the pseudo-communist parties of western and central Europe. I have also already explained to you why it is considered Left-wing on Greek wikipedia and not Far-Left from when you asked me this same question on my wikipedia talk page. TURTLOS (talk) 05:26, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

Anyway TURTLOS is pretty low of you to say that I am suited for a party like Golden Dawn. Georgopa (talk) 10:04, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

Your right but atleast I have a reason for my low claim yours just came out of no where and were based on a generalization, mine was based off the contents of your previous comment. TURTLOS (talk) 12:04, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

Please can someone provide some reliable sources as citations next to the ideology of 'left-wing' (or change the ideology and provide reliable citations for the position of far-left) in the info box on the right-hand side of the page? It is unreasonable to criticize those who change the political position without providing the relevant citations supporting the current claim in ideology next to said ideology.

References

Oh dear ...

I suppose any article written by the far-right in conjunction with the KKE is not going to be be notable for its veracity. A couple of things that someone could look at, provided they belong to neither group:

1) 3 December 1944, ALL reliable eye witnesses affirm that the demonstration was totally unarmed and largely good-humoured (see, e.g., Byford-Jones, who was not at all sympathetic to EAM). EAM had already called a general strike on the 4th - how does that fit with an insurrection on the 3rd?

2) I note that there is no mention of Ares Velouchiotis, neither his letters to the party begging for a reconsideration of their policies in view of the White Terror, which I understand started even before disarmament, nor his dismissal from the party and subsequent death, nor his reinstatement politically but not in terms of party membership, which was received with considerable criticism. The name of Ares appears nowhere on this page nor on the page for Aleka Papariga, who presided over Ares' 'rehabilitation'. Bougatsa42 (talk) 03:38, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Intelligentsia

I think it is of utmost importance to add the artists that were active members of the Communist Party in a section. Its penetration in the intellectuals was such, that Hadjidakis made the famous remark "In Greece they say, that in order to be a great artist you got to be either a communist, or a homosexual. And I am not a communist" --Spartacus Marat (talk) 21:58, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Neutrality warning

Clearly this article is the result of extreme left - far right wrangling. There is no attempt to consider any point properly and neutrally. E.g. the claim that 'ELAS conflicted finally with the rest of the resistance organizations and armies (especially EDES and EKKA), accusing most of them of being traitors and collaborators of the Nazis'. Actually, can you name any one of the British-sponsored 'resistance' organisations, apart from ELAS, that didn't collaborate with the Germans, Italians or Bulgarians? Either from the top, or, as in the case of EKKA, via the other officers, who all decamped to Patra and the Germans after being defeated by ELAS. The far right are reduced to applying to non-historians such as Woodhouse and Papandreou to back up their case.

On the other hand the KKE are still trying to deny their responsibility for handing the country over to the British and the far right, who are still ruining the country today (tell me again, how many New Democracy MPs are the progeny of collaborators?) . It is abundantly clear that even today, KKE members have no sense of regret for what happened, no idea of what might have been. For the KKE, the biggest crime was and is, not inviting the destruction of the progressive movement, but criticizing the idiots who caused it. Bougatsa42 (talk) 07:54, 4 September 2014 (UTC)

You're right about most things except for the fact that the KKE has no regret for handing over Greece to the Right, this is untrue, many communists feel that this is the greatest mistake that their party has ever done and regret it to this day. TURTLOS (talk) 23:31, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

Fair enough, I should have said KKE leadership instead of members. Bougatsa42 (talk) 14:08, 3 January 2015 (UTC)

Edit summary missing

I clicked 'Enter' a bit to quick here. Experience shows that referencing left-right positions is a dead end, as it is always possible to gather other references for another position. It underlines the arbitrary nature of the left-right axis. --Soman (talk) 10:05, 2 March 2016 (UTC)

Which homoglyphs for the name?

In this article, in some places specifically the first mention of an abbreviation, the abbreviation ΚΚΕ is used with the Greek versions of the Homographs (Kappa Kappa Epsilon), later in the article the same abbreviation is used with the roman letters KKE. I appreciate that the roman kke should be used in the website www.kke.gr (which doesn't work if you have kappa kappa epsilon, I tried), but I'm wondering down in the text.Naraht (talk) 19:05, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

left wing nationalism

kke does not self identify this way. if there are sources that claim this is kke s ideology, pls cite them. as it is this is an unsourced claim Greece666 (talk) 16:04, 4 September 2019 (UTC)

Policy on EU

At Withdrawal from the European Union#Advocates in other countries for withdrawal, the CP is listed as a party that proposes that Greece leaves the EU. I can't see from this article whether or not that is true. Would someone please clarify this article if possible and then update the Withdrawal article? --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 22:36, 4 October 2019 (UTC)

It has been removed from that article because it was not cited there, nor is it cited on this page. Euroscepticism has been added to the ideology list on this page a few times but not with a reliable supporting citation. If a reliable supporting citation can be added that supports the party having this as an ideology I see no problem with adding it. That being said I have not seen any reliable source claim this. That is not to say they do or don't support it, as I don't know the party's view on the matter. Helper201 (talk) 00:26, 5 October 2019 (UTC)

The party does not oppose LGBT rights

They are against gays adopting but they don't hate gay people and the general secretary himself has said that they don't any racist behavior towards gays and that people who act racist towards gays should be punished Στάλιν και παραλλαγή (talk) 03:51, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

Party position

I don't think a singular 10-year-old source is enough justification for the classification to add left-wing to the infobox. See WP:OLDSOURCES. The party was also under a different General Secretary in 2011 than it is now. Helper201 (talk) 21:35, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

I would support removing "left-wing" and just having "far-left" in the infobox. Sources for "far-left" are more numerous, recent and of equal, if not higher, quality, particularly given that the publisher of the "left-wing" source does not seem to be an academic one. I could also not find a source calling the KKE "left-wing", but some recent sources calling it "far-left", i.e. [2]. 15 (talk) 22:40, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

• Use "far-left" per 15's comment above. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 09:03, 28 May 2021 (UTC)
• Far-left only. KKE is probably the most hardcore/dogmatic Old Left Marxist-Leninist party which has important relevance in a democracy (its electoral significance etc.). No need to water it down to "left-wing to far-left" or anything like that.Potugin (talk) 11:45, 1 June 2021 (UTC)
• Far-left only per others. The onus is on those who wish to change this to provide good sources that support KKE no longer being substantially still a traditional/hardcore/dogmatic old left Marxist-Leninist party. The red-flag hammer and sickle is otherwise a bit of a give-away! Pincrete (talk) 14:15, 12 June 2021 (UTC)
• Use both Left-wing and Far Left. I understand that most of the English sources are using the term far left. But there are also sources that describe it as Left-wing. Actually KKE is the only party in Europe that remained pure Left. It is not hardcore, it is just stable on its positions. And the reason that is no longer part of the European Left is that it doesn't want to ally with parties like SYRIZA that are not 100% left-wing and some other small matters. In the reality the term Far-left describe either anarchist groups and parties that have extreme internationalist views (like "there is not national identity" etc) or Stalinists, Hoxhaists etc. KKE is neither of them. 89.210.136.173 (talk) 22:03, 14 July 2021 (UTC)
• Both of them. There are sources that describe it as Left-wing, the opinion that the sources are old does not make any sense, because the party ideology has not changed. Also KKE is generally considered as the original Greek Left, the Greek Far-Left is often used to describe other organizations. Greek Rebel (talk) 21:19, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Comintern and other historical affiliations

In the international affiliation historical ones should be added like Comintern and perhaps the Cominform. 82.102.65.41 (talk) 11:05, 17 March 2023 (UTC)

The effects of communism in Greece

Η Ελλάδα μετά την απελευθέρωση το 1821 ακολουθούσε συνεχώς μια ανοδική πορεία. Με την επικράτηση όμως των μπολσεβίκων το 1917 και την επιρροή τους στα βαλκάνια, η Ελλάδα οδηγήθηκε στην καταστροφή. Τα κύρια σημεία αυτής της καταστροφικής πορείας είναι:

1)Η Σοβιετική Ένωση στήριξε τον Κεμάλ με αποτέλεσμα οι δυτικοί σύμμαχοι να μας εγκαταλείψουν φοβούμενοι μη χάσουν την επιρροή τους στη νέα Τουρκία. Παράλληλα οι Έλληνες κουμμουνιστές υπονόμευαν τον αγώνα. Αποτέλεσμα η Μικρασιατική Καταστροφή.

2)Η ηγεσία του ΚΚΕ με πολλούς σλαβομακεδόνες και βούλγαρους άρχισαν να θέτουν το θέμα απόσχισης της Μακεδονίας και Θράκης από την Ελλάδα.

3) Στην Ιταλική εισβολή απείχαν αφού οι Σοβιετικοί ήταν σύμμαχοι του Άξονα (Σύμφωνο Μολότωφ-Ρίμεντροπ).

4)Εν μέσω τριπλής κατοχής 1941-44, το ΕΑΜ-ΕΛΑΣ εξόντωσε όλες τις πατριωτικές οργανώσεις με σκοπό να πάρει μεταπολεμικά την εξουσία και συνεργάστηκε με τους κατακτητές. Ακολούθησε ο Συμμοριτοπόλεμος 1946-49 που άφησε χιλιάδες θύματα και βαθιές πληγές στην ελληνική κοινωνία.

5)Οι κομμουνιστές της Κύπρου, ο Μακάριος και ο Ανδρέας Παπανδρέου πούλησαν τον αγώνα των Κυπρίων για ένωση το 1964 και οδήγησαν τελικά στη διχοτόμηση της νήσου το 1974.

6) Ο τροτσκιστής Ανδρέας Παπανδρέου οδήγησε τον πατέρα του σε σύγκρουση με το βασιλιά το 1965 και την Ελλάδα στην ανωμαλία και στην επιβολή δικτατορίας το 1967.

7)Αμνήστευσε τους αριστερούς προδότες το 1982 και τους ονόμασε αντιστασιακούς και νόθεψε την ελληνική ιστορία με ψεύτικους μύθους. Δηλητηρίασε έτσι το ελληνικό λαό ως τις μέρες μας.

8) Η κυβέρνηση ΣΥΡΙΖΑ αναγνώρισε τα Σκόπια ως Βόρεια Μακεδονία.

Στις εκλογές όμως Μαϊου-Ιουνίου 2023 ο ελληνικός λαός, εκκωφαντικά πια, έθαψε τις πρακτικές, τα παραμύθια και την τοξικότητα των Αριστεροπασόκων και τους έστειλε οριστικά στα τάρταρα με απόλυτα δημοκρατικό και ήρεμο τρόπο. Η Ελλάδα νίκησε. Κοινοβουλευτικός (talk) 11:16, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

@Κοινοβουλευτικός: this is English Wikipedia, please post in English language. –Vipz (talk) 03:30, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

I speak Greek, but I find the text bizarre. Κοινοβουλευτικός claims that Greece experienced steady progress until the Greco-Turkish War (1919–1922). He blames the military defeat on betrayal by the Greek communists, instead of an ill-conceived attempt to capture Ankara, dwindling food supplies, and generally low morale after the failure at the Battle of the Sakarya. He then claims that Greek communists undermined the war effort during the Greco-Italian War (1940-1941) and the Axis occupation of Greece. He then blames the Cypriot communists for the Turkish invasion of Cyprus (1974), instead of the right-wingers responsible for the 1974 Cypriot coup d'état. He blames the supposedly "trotskyist" Andreas Papandreou for both the Apostasia of 1965 and the Greek junta (1967-1974). Instead of the right-wing Constantine II of Greece who usually gets the blame for both events. By the way, I am a grandson of a communist-turned-socialist, who spend the last 40 years of his life as a party member of PASOK. I am used to hearing that all right-wingers, royalists, and Germanophiles are traitors, but I have rarely heard of communists being blamed for treason. Dimadick (talk) 22:46, 25 July 2023 (UTC)