Talk:Armenian nobility

Comment

This page is a bit of a fan article but it contains a lot of good information, so if the POV can be neutralised (and if it doesn't have copyright problems), it could make the basis of a good article. -- Derek Ross | Talk 22:35, Mar 12, 2005 (UTC)

Welcome, melik Vrej Atabekian, and thank you for contributing this informative article. It fills a gap in Wikipedia's coverage of Armenia and so it is very welcome. However please note that Wikipedia can only accept it, if you contribute it under the terms of the Gnu Free Documentation license or some similar "copyleft" licence. If you want to establish your original authorship, I strongly recommend that you create an account using the "create account/log in" link on your screen. This will mark you as an author of articles that you create while logged in and make it unnecessary for you to add your name and the copyright symbol to these articles since the Wikipedia software will record that you have contributed them automatically in the "edit history". -- Derek Ross | Talk 02:31, Mar 13, 2005 (UTC)

Dear Mr. Ross,

Apologies for my late reply. I am new in Wikipedia and had no idea that there are discussions here. I am also not quite sure how to participate in discussion; I assumed that editing is the right way to add my comment.

First, thank you for accepting my article. I am not sure I understand some of your comments though. What did you mean by saying that my article "is a bit of a fan article"? I thought that encyclopedia normally contains a variety of diverse information, and almost each piece is interesting to a specific audience. Concerning making “the basis of a good article”, this article has been published in two academic periodicals (both available on-line). I also do not know what "the POV" is and how to neutralize it.

As to the copyright, I followed your advice and got registered. This, however, did not automatically add my name as the author of the article. Could you please advise me on the follow-up steps?

Best regards,

Vrej

I will attempt to assist Mr. Atabekian with the "cleanup" of the article. --Eupator 18:45, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

Dear friends, while this article should, perhaps, remain accessible (as more info is becoming available regarding Armenian nobility - with news studies and interest generated around the world), it is quite unpleasant to see some impostors adding their last names to the list of noble houses of Armenia. I just saw (and removed) "Vardanians" or "Hayrabedians" (among some others) added to the list, without any scientific or historical grounds. The true Armenian princely families are relatively easy to tell: they either have "-uni" endings (for example Syuni, Arshakuni, Artzruni) or, otherwise, for those ending with more common Armenian "-ian" endings there should be any (at least) one mentioning as Princes ("ishkhan" or "meliq") in the Armenian history. To prove my point, There was no single mentioning of "ishkhan Hairabedian" or "ishkhan Vardanian"; these are typical commoner last names, quite popular in Armenia, and definitely not titled nobles. I hope moderators of this page will regularly check the list of Armenian noble houses and make sure that all kind of impostors do not add their family names to the list. 92.106.41.33 (talk) 20:07, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

Can someone please protect this article? I see that from time to time all sorts of impostors add their last names to the lists of princely families of Armenia, this pretending to be "nobles". For example, someone Vardanian keeps adding this commoner last name to the above-mentioned list. The Armenian history has no record of any "princes Vardanians". This is a commoner last name. Today I also saw - with much surprise - the "Sargsyans princes of Lennagan". This is yet another shameful lie. Let's keep this article clean from any impostors.

There is also confusion between titled and non-titled nobility. For example, the Pirumians were of noble origin, however, they did not have any titles (ishxan or meliq). Strictly speaking, enlisting them along with the princely/meliqly houses is not quite accurate. Still, this never mind. Please just make sure that all sorts of Vardanians and Sargsyans do not add their family names to the lists of Armenian titled nobility 2A02:120B:2C39:FEA0:907E:C4B9:A0E0:4B50 (talk) 09:49, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

I see that all sorts of impostors continue adding their last names to the list of Armenian titled (princely) families. I have removed "Danielian-Danilova" (???), Khachean (?) and several others. Just to reiterate: the list of Armenian titled noble families is definite and easy to verify in the writings of Armenian historians and historical sources (i.e. before the republican rule in Armenian in 1918). The accurate list is available at the official website of the Armenian Princely Union at: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-n4jTnH8MEAdmJ6VUN2QVNleEE/view

I suggest that the segment of the article that contains the listing of families is secured. Lancelord (talk) 10:04, 20 January 2017 (UTC)

Azat and its root

This word is unlikely to be derived from Old Persian Yazata. In fact, in its present form, it was used in Middle Persian (Azat) and is equivalent to Modern Persian (azad). It precisely means "freeborn". In fact "Azatan" were a class in Sassanid nobility structure, above 'Dehgans' (small land owners) but below "Vuzurgan" (members of the large aristocratic families). It is a guess, albeit an educated guess, that they controlled holdings equal to one or more villages (enough holdings to support and arm one Azat cavalry man and up to five retainers, equal to European men-at-arms). Dehgans had enough land to arm just themselves and may be family members (usually a father and his sons). Vuzurgan were expected to rise a whole contingent from their holdings, and many had private feudal armies. In that sense, Armenian Azat, should mean something similar to this parthian/Sassanid concept. mrjahan Nov 3 2006.

Internal Division

While the words arxatos, raja, and roi refer to human beings (those who rule), the words regia and regnum do not. These latter refer to the fact of ruling or to what is ruled. These Latin words should be replaced with the Latin parallel term "rex."70.161.208.216 14:25, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:The Orbeli Family.jpg

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If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 23:07, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Sources

The original article had:

This article is published with the permission of its author Meliq Vrej Atabekian.

This article is partially based on the materials that were provided by Grand Duke Gevorg Pirumyan, Marshall of Armenian Nobility.

suggesting that some content is not actually based on a published source, but was obtained by hearsa, attributed to this Duke Gevorg Pirumyan. In the spirit of WP:V it will need to be established what part of the article can actually be traced to the sources listed. dab (𒁳) 13:12, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

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Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 13:53, 22 May 2023 (UTC)