Talk:List of women composers by birth date

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Comments

Shouldn't it be "female" composers? Maybe some young people (i.e. Mozart) composed. Dmsar 00:05 26 Jul 2003 (UTC)

also, BTW, shouln't this be classical? Because there are a lot of popular women who write and compose songs, i.e. Meredith Brooks, Sara MacClaughlin... Dmsar 00:07 26 Jul 2003 (UTC)

I agree it should be "female". I'm not sure about "classical" - people who just write songs are normally called "songwriters", aren't they? Anyway, I'll move this to List of female composers, and if you want to move it somewhere else with "classical" in the title, feel free. --Camembert

Actually, as the article itself says "classical", I guess it would make sense to put that in the title (I didn't like it because it could be said to exclude film composers, for example). Anyway, as I say, I'll leave it to you (or somebody else). --Camembert

Don't leave it to me... everytime I try to move something I either piss people off or screw it up. haha. Dmsar 10:09 26 Jul 2003 (UTC)

i disagree! both terms are possible, but they do have different connotations! (speaking from a women's studies perspective) i feel that the term "female composers" puts undue emphasis on the women's physical sex (and/or gender identity) and obscures the real reason "women composers" were so rare (back in those days): because of sexism, socially and professionally. who knows if maybe some women were really intersexed? or if some men secretly cross-dressed? it doesn't matter! as feminists, we admire these historical "women composers" not for being female per se, but because they were able to overcome societal hurdles, and pave the way for future women musicians/composers. bethchen 2006.0214.1526 (EST)

Source on Anne Boleyn if anyone is curious: Historical Anthology of Music by Women (ISBN 0253212960), Indiana University Press, 1986. Antandrus 17:28, 25 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I notice that someone removed Anne Boleyn; I put her back. She appears with one composition in the anthology listed above, and listed under "references" in the article; while no autograph manuscript of the piece remains, I believe the attribution is reliable enough to allow her a place on the list. The piece in question "O Deathe, rock me asleepe" was written while she was awaiting execution in the Tower of London. Antandrus (talk) 17:07, 12 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I have attempted to add Bianca Maria Meda to the list of 17th century female composers, however Wiki is bizarrely not accepting the edit. Is there a possibility that someone else could add her to the list? She composed a set of motets in 1691. Couperin clavecin (talk) 03:46, 1 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Women composers

Wouldn't this list be redundant if Category:Women composers were populated? Karol 12:30, Jun 26, 2005 (UTC) P.S.: I just ran through this list, and there seems to be alot of duplicates... for instance, Fanny Mendelssohn is there twice.

No: lists are not the same as categories. For one thing, you cannot put redlinks in a category, and you need redlinks to know which entries still need to be written. Also you cannot annotate a category (for example, include the birth and death dates). Antandrus (talk) 14:38, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Ha! Antandrus, duplication of effort; see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Composers. Mindspillage (spill yours?) 14:43, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

OK... case closed :) Thanks for pointing out the distance. Refer also to discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Composers#Women composers. I've added the list to the category, hope that's right. Karol 15:33, Jun 26, 2005 (UTC)

A Bigger List

I've just been "exploring" New Grove, and I've figured out they have a list of women composers, which currently has 578 articles in it. So that's something to aim for. I'm working on it. Mak emi 06:14, 14 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Troubadours / Trouvères / Trobairitz

I'm guessing no one is actually watching this, but what would people think of one article, which would list and give info for all of the female troubadours. There's just so little info which is still around, I think it's worthwhile, but after having added a couple articles on these women, I think almost more could be said if they were collapsed into one article. See, for instance: Azalais de Porcairagues, Castelloza,Comtessa de Dia. Mak emi 06:14, 14 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think you could do that. It would be an interesting article. (I usually make articles for individual composers, but when you have only one line's worth of information on each of ten composers who can otherwise be grouped together, why not?) Antandrus (talk) 06:17, 14 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Cool, I'll work on it later, and hopefully get some larger background (larger societal mvmt. etc.), and link it from the Troubadour page. Hey! I might even get to list my dad's book as a source :) Mak emi 06:24, 14 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

hey, that's a great idea! just make sure you don't conflate the women troubadours and women trouvères (official term: "trobairitz"). bethchen 2006.0214.1456 (EST)

Sorry, I'm a little confused. According to what I've read so far, trobairitz is the term for a woman troubadour, not a a woman trouvere (although I haven't looked into the latter yet). Mak emi 21:56, 14 February 2006 (UTC) ps. a beginning at User:Makemi/Workspace[reply]

oops! you're right! (see how easy it is to get them mixed up?) in any case, there is currently no wikipedia page for "trobairitz". bethchen 2006.0214.2100 (EST)

Alright, it took me a while but I have now created the page Trobairitz. It still needs some work, but at least it's there. If anyone comes across info on another trobairitz, I encourage you to toss it on in there. Mak emi 04:29, 21 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Bigger List

took from main page - otherwise we'll have a boatload of red links

Note: These women all have CD recordings of their music, listed in the WorldCat database.

(0810-0867) Kassia/Kassiane
(1098-1197) St Hildegard von Bingen
(1140-1173) Azalais de Porcairagues
(1150?-1200?) Na Carenza
(1150?-1200?) N'Alais
(1150?-1200?) N'Iselda
(1160-1212) Comtessa Beatriz de Día
(1175?-1225?) Marie de France
(1175?-1225?) Na Castelloza
(1188-1252) Queen Blanche de Castille
(1193-1229) Condesa de Provenza/Proensa Garsenda
(1200?-1250?) (Anonymous)
(1200?-1250?) Beatriz de Romans
(1200?-1250?) Iseut de Capio
(1200?-1250?) Almuc de Castelnau
(1200?-1300?) (Las Huelgas Codex)
(1250?-1300?) (Anonymous)
(1250?-1300?) Maroie de Dregnau/Diergnau de Lille
(1250?-1300?) Dame Margot
(1300?-1350?) (Anonymous)
(1350?-1400?) (Anonymous)
(1350?-1400?) Daughter of Ioannes Kladas
(1400?-1450?) (Anonymous)
(1480-1530?) Margaret/Marguerite von Österreich
(1500?-1550?) Sor Gracia Baptista
(1507-1536) Anne Boleyn
(1530-1600?) Teodora Gines
(1540-1590) Maddalena Casulana de Mezarii
(1550?-1600?) Contessa Maria Paterina
(1550?-1600?) Susanna/Susanne van Soldt
(1570-1610) Caterina Assandra
(1575-16200 Vittoria Aleotti
(1584-1655) Anna Ovena Hoijer/Hoyers
(1587-1645) Francesca Caccini
(1590-1662) Lucrezia Orsina Vizzana
(1600?-1650?) Jane Pickering
(1600?-1650?) Lady Killigrew
(1602-1678) Chiara Margarita Cozzolani
(1619-1677) Barbara Strozzi
(1620-1704) Isabella Leonarda
(1629-1704) Lady Mary Harvey Dering
(1643-1715) Antonia Bembo
(1648-1695) Sor Juana de Asbaje Inés de la Cruz
(1650?-1700?) Anonymous
(1650?-1700?) Lupe Ortiz
(1650?-1700?) Maria Joachina Rodrigues
(1652-1709) Maria Xaveria Peruchona
(1660-1715) Rosa Giacinta Badalla
(1665-1700?) Bianca Maria Meda
(1665-1729) Elisabeth Claude Jacquet de la Guerre
(1675?-1725?) Camilla de Rossi
(1675?-1725?) Maria Margherita Grimani
(1700?-1750?) A Lady
(1700?-1750?) Mrs Philharmonica
(1704-1769) Louise Duval
(1723-1787) Anna Amalia, Princess of Prussia
(1724-1780) Maria Antonia Walpurgis
(1725-1784) Elizabeth Turner
(1731-1765) Elisabetta de Gambarini
(1738-1767) Anna Bon di Venezia
(1739-1807) Anna Amalia, Duchess of Sachsen Weimar
(1740-1828) Elisabeth Olin
(1744-1812) Marianna/Marianne Anna Catharina Martínes
(1745-1818) Maddalena Laura Lombardini Sirmen
(1749-1799) Maria Polly Young Barthélemon
(1750?-1784) Ekaterina Alexeievna Siniavina
(1750?-1800?) Elizabeth Hardin
(1750?-1800?) Miss L H of Liverpool
(1750?-1800?) Miss Steemson
(1750?-1800?) Advotia Ivanova
(1751-1802) Corona Elisabeth Wilhelmine Schröter
(1756-1791) Francesca/Franziska Dorothea Danzi Lebrun
(1759-1782) Marianna von Auenbrugger
(1759-1824) Maria Theresia von Paradis
(1760-1813) Maria Hester Reynolds Park
(1765?-1790?) Madame de Villeblanche
(1766-1831) Princess Natalia Ivanovna Golovina Kurakina
(1767-1859) Cecilia Maria Barthélemon
(1768-1800) Maria Margarethe Marchand Danzi
(1775-1847) Sophia Corri Dussek
(1779-1826) Louise (C. Luise) Reichardt
(1780-1840) Ekaterina Lykochina
(1782-1849) Elise Müller
(1785-1859) Elisabeth Brentano von Arnim (Bettine)
(1786-1820) Marie Kiéné Bigot de Morogues
(1789-1831) Maria Agata Wolowska Szymanowska
(1796-1835) Helene Riese Liebmann
(1799-1850?) Jeannette Bürde
(1804-1875) Jeanne Louise Dumont Farrenc
(1805-1847) Fanny Cäcilie Mendelssohn Hensel
(1808-1836) Maria Malibran
(1808-1877) Caroline Elizabeth Sarah Sheridan Norton
(1810-1858) Johanna Katharina Mockel Mathieux Kinkel
(1810-1900) Alicia Anne Spottiswoode Scott
(1812-1883) Emilie Mayer
(1815-1880) Josephine Lang
(1819-1895) Elizabeth Stirling
(1819-1896) Clara Josephine Wieck Schumann
(1821-1910) Michelle Ferdinande Pauline García Viardot
(1825-1877) Mary Ann Virginia Gabriel
(1825?-1875?) Renée Eldèse
(1835-1903) Amelia Lehmann
(1830-1908) Marie Félicie Clémence de Reiset Grandval
(1839-1927) Laura Pistolekors Netzel (Lago)
(1841-1919) Louise Pauline Marie Viardot Héritte
(1841-1929) Elfrida Andrée
(1844-1931) Clara Kathleen Rodgers
(1846-1918) Sophie Menter
(1847-1903) Augusta Mary Anne Holmès
(1847-1907) Agathe Backer Grøndahl
(1850-1927) Luise Adolpha Le Beau
(1850?-1900?) Sarah Lancaster
(1851-1944) Annie Fortescue Harrison
(1853-1894) Amanda Maier Röntgen
(1853-1917) Maria Teresa Carreño
(1855-1933) Kate Vannah
(1855-1937) Maude Valérie White
(1856-1930) Eva Dell'Acqua
(1857-1944) Cécile Louise Stéphanie Chaminade
(1857-1944) Mary Knight Wood
(1858-1936) Helen Guy Rhodes (d'Hardelot)
(1858-1937) Mélanie Bonis
(1858-1944) Dame Ethel Mary Smyth
(1860-1919) Amelia Ward Woodforde Finden (Amy)
(1860-1928) Valborg Aulin
(1862-1918) Elisabetha Nina Mary Frederica Lehmann (Liza)
(1862-1946) Carrie Minetta Jacobs Bond
(1864-1942) Eleanor Everest Freer
(1864-1943) Alice Tegnér
(1866-1946) Florence Newell Barbour
(1867-1944) Amy Marcy Cheney Beach
(1867-1971) Margaret Ruthven Lang
(1871-1950?) Estelle D Ricketts
(1871-1955) Jane Vieu (Pierre Valette)
(1872-1948) Clara Faisst
(1875-1956) Henriette Renié
(1876-1968) Teresa del Riego
(1877-1964) Imogene Giles
(1877-1960) Fay Foster
(1879-1932) Irene Regine Wieniawska (Poldowski)
(1879-1961) Johanna Senfter
(1879-1964) Alma Maria Schindler Mahler Werfel
(1880-1972) Clara Gerlich Edwards (a.k.a. Bernard Haig)
(1881-1947) Fannie Charles Dillon
(1882-1955) Marion Eugenie Bauer
(1882-1964) Mary Carlisle Howe
(1883-1950) Adaline Shepherd
(1883-1956) Geraldine Dobyns
(1884-1956) Mary Hannah Dickson Brahe
(1885-1974) Nora Douglas Holt
(1885-1979) Charlotte Blake
(1886-1961) Eugenia Scarpa (Geni Sadero)
(1886-1968) Julia Lee Niebergall
(1886-1979) Rebecca Clarke
(1887-1953) Florence Beatrice Smith Price
(1887-1958) Lily Teresa Strickland
(1887-1979) Nadia Juliëtte Boulanger
(1884-1981) Gisella Augusta Zuckermann Cassel (Mana Zucca)
(1888-1944) Johanna Magdalena Beyer
(1888-1949) Rosaly Marie Wertheim
(1888-1970) Marian I Davis Ginsberg
(1888-1970) Irene Cozad
(1888-1972) May Frances Aufderheide
(1888-1974) Irene M Giblin
(1888-1982) Camille Nickerson
(1888-1986) Ilse Fromm Michaels
(1889-1979) Carol Robinson
(1890-1951) Kathleen Lockhart Manning
(1890-1984) Mary Baugh Watson
(1891-1957) Gladys Yelvington
(1892-1972) Gladys Rich
(1892-1980) Katherine K Davis
(1892-1983) Germaine Tailleferre
(1892-1986) Mirrie Hill
(1893-1918) Juliëtte Marie Olga Boulanger (Lili)
(1894-1982) Edna Frida Pietsch
(1894-1987) Iris de Cairos Rego
(1896-1966) Lucie Vellère
(1896-1975) Evangeline Lehman
(1897-1984) Margaret Sutherland
(1899-1950?) Gladys Mary Sheldon
(1899-1974) Sophie Carmen Friedman Gramatté Eckhardt
(1899-1982) Vally Pick Weigl
(1899-2001) Grete von Zieritz
(1895-1989) Mildred Lund Tyson (Mrs. Harold Canfield)
(1886-1953) Molly Carew (Mrs. Walter Heaton-Smith)
(1898-1989) Dorothy Hogben
(1901-1953) Ruth Porter Crawford Seeger
(1903-1944) Ilse Weber
(1903-1986) Priaulx Rainier
(1903-1990) Claude Arrieu
(1904-1988) Lillie M Jackson
(1904-1989) Undine Smith Moore
(1905-1987) Elizabeth Poston
(1906-1983) Elisabeth Lutyens
(1906-1996) Louise Talma
(1906-1996) Miriam Gideon
(1907-1994) Elizabeth Maconchy
(1908-2000) Jean Coulthard
(1908-2004) Zenobia Powell Perry
(1908-) Roberta Bitgood
(1909-1969) Grazyna Bacewicz
(1910-1999) Elsa Barraine
(1910-) Frances Roots Hadden
(1911-1987) Phyllis Margaret Duncan Tate
(1911-1989) Julia Smith
(1912-1990) Peggy Glanville Hicks
(1912-2000) Barbara Pentland
(1913-1972) Margaret Allison Bonds
(1913-2000) Violet Archer
(1913-2000) Vivian Fine
(1914-2005) Nancy Plummer Faxon
(1914-) Pauline Jackson Driggs
(1915-1940) Vítezslava Kaprálová
(1915-1973) Esther Williamson Ballou
(1915-1989) Eunice Katunda
(1916-1993) Erna Tauro
(1918-) Lynn Wainwright Palmer
(1919-) Galina Ivanovna Ustvolskaya
(1921-1968) Jeanne Marie Madeleine Demessieux
(1921-) Graciela Rivera
(1921-) Margaret Vardell Sandresky
(1922-) Ester Magi
(1922-) Jeanine Rueff
(1923-1977) Madeleine Dring
(1923-1978) Hariette Davison
(1923-) Jean Eichelberger Ivey
(1924-1979) Julia Amanda Perry
(1924-) Erzsébet Szönyi
(1924-) Ruth Schonthal
(1925-) Edith Borroff
(1925-) Gertrud Firnkees
(1925- Jeanne Ellison Shaffer
(1925-) Margaret Fairlie Kennedy
(1925-) Orpha Ochse
(1907-1999) Irene Britton Smith
(1922-) Rachel Eubanks
(1926-) Carmen Petra Basacopol
(1926-) Marga Richter
(1927-) Emma Lou Diemer
(1927-) Janet Maguire
(1927-) Margaret Garwood
(1927-) Mary Jeanne van Appledorn
(1928-1994) Betty Jackson King
(1928-) Elizabeth Bell
(1928-) Joyce Hope Suskind
(1928-) Thea Musgrave
(1928-) Ursula Mamlok
(1929-) Lena Johnson McLin
(1930-1994) Yardena Alotin
(1930-) Ann Silsbee
(1930-) Nancy Van de Vate
(1930-) Ruth Lomon
(1931-2000) Lucia Dlugoszewski
(1931-) Felicia Donceanu
(1931-) Sofia Asgatovna Gubaidulina
(1932-1996) Tera de Marez Oyens
(1932-) Elizabeth Lauer
(1933-) Ida Rose Esther Gotkovsky
(1935-) Valerie Capers
(1936-) Barbara Heller Reinchenbach
(1936-) Margaret Shelton Meier
(1936-) Vivian Adelberg Rudow
(1937-) Katherine Hoover
(1938-) Barbara Niewiadomska
(1938-) Dianne Goolkasian Rahbee
(1938-) Elizabeth R Scheidel Austin
(1938-) Gloria Coates
(1938-) Joan Tower
(1939-) Annea Lockwood
(1939-) Barbara Kolb
(1939-) Elinor Armer
(1939-) Ellen Taaffe Zwilich
(1939-) Jennifer Fowler
(1940-) Dorothy Rudd Moore
(1940-) Eleanor Hovda
(1940-) Marica Penney Preston
(1941-2002) Kay Gardner
(1941-) Elizabeth Walton Vercoe
(1941-) Jeraldine Saunders Herbison
(1942-) Diane Thome
(1942-) Meredith Monk
(1943-) Eleanor Cory
(1940-) Lucy Simon
(1943-) Tania León
(1944-) Alison Bauld
(1944-) Rhian Aberdare Samuel
(1944-) Silvia Sommer
(1945-) Donna Kelly Eastman
(1945-) Judith Lang Zaimont
(1945-) Victoria Bond
(1946-) Barbara Harbach
(1946-) Marilyn Shrude
(1946-) Sheila Silver
(1946-) Susan Hurley
(1947-) Faye Ellen Silverman
(1947-) Gwyneth V Walker
(1947-) Hilary Tann
(1948-) Kristan Aspen
(1949-) Alexina Louie
(1949-) Ann Callaway
(1949-) Eleanor Alberga
(1949-) Jane Brockman
(1949-) Judith Shatin
(1949-) Mary Jane Leach
(1949-) Maxine Warshauer
(1949-) Odaline de la Martinez
(1949-) Shulamit Ran
(1950-) Libby Larsen
(1950-) Teresa Marie Ranaletta Guanciale Bogner Edel (Therese Edell)
(1950-) Elena Firsova
(1950?-) (Billy Tipton Memorial Saxophone Quartet)
(1961-) Amy Denio
(1950?-) Barbara Poulshock
(1952-) Bunita Marcus
(1950?-) Cathy Travers
(1950?-) Cheryl Ann Fulton
(1950?-) Christina Harmon
(1950?-) Dolores White
(1950?-) Eliza Gilkyson
(1950?-) Elizabeth C Brown
(1932-) Jacqueline Butler Hairston
(1950?-) Jessica Lurie
(1950?-) Joyce Todd McBride
(1950?-) Kathy Fire
(1950?-) Kay Kellogg
(1960-) Laura Greenberg
(1951-) Lois V Vierk
(1940-) Margaret Brouwer
(1957-) Mary Ellen Childs
(1950?-) Melina Maxwell
(1950?-) Merryl Ruth Goldberg
(1950?-) Nancy Ford
(1950?-) Robin Holcomb
(1950?-) Sharon J Willis
(1962-) Victoria Jordanova
(1937-) Keiko Abe
(1951-) Anneli Arho
(1951-) Janna MacAuslan
(1951-) Marjorie Merryman
(1951-) Nancy Galbraith
(1952-) Dorothee Eberhardt
(1952-) Kaija Anneli Laakkonen Saariaho
(1952-) Nurit Tilles
(1952-) Tina Davidson
(1953-) Evelyn Simpson Curenton
(1953-) Lettie Beckon Alston
(1953-) Susan Blaustein
(1953-) Theresa Clark
(1953-) Violeta Dinescu
(1953-) Chen Yi
(1954-) Cynthia Folio
(1954-) Judith Weir
(1955-) Elisenda Fábregas
(1955-) Kathryn Alexander
(1955-) Sarah Aderholdt
(1955-) Sheree Clément
(1956-) Akemi Naito
(1956-) Laura Kaminsky
(1956-) Marjorie Hess
(1956-) Michelle Ekizian
(1956-) Paula M Kimper
(1956-) Regina Harris Baiocchi
(1957-) Geri Allen
(1957-) Linda Bouchard
(1957-) Marilyn Lerner
(1957-) Karin Rehnqvist
(1958-) Julia Wolfe
(1958-) Juliana Hall
(1959-) Marti Epstein
(1960-) Mary C Wright
(1950-) Dorothy J Papadakos
(1961-) Cindy Annice Cox
(1961-) Shira Kammen
(1961-) Stefania de Kenessey
(1962-) Diana Arismendi
(1962-) Jennifer Higdon
(1962-) Serra Miyeun Hwang
(1963-) Elena Butuzova
(1964-) Sarah Peebles
(1964-) Augusta Read Thomas
(1965-) Anna Weesner
(1966-) Dorothy Elliston Hindman
(1970-) Molly Thompson
(1972-) Linda Antas

Huh, I must have been distracted when this happened - I think it makes sense for this list to have redlinks. That's part of why we have lists, as opposed to categories. Well, I've re-added a bunch of these names, and will probably add more. I think we should include every woman composer who is sufficiently notable to have a WP article on her on this list. Mak (talk) 02:13, 6 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Absolutely. Redlinks are good. They are how the encyclopedia grows. Otherwise how will we know what is missing? On lists, redlinks are not only good, they're essential. Antandrus (talk) 02:20, 6 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

birth/deathdates for a few redlinked composers born around 1904

[1] confirms (if it is confirmation) that Martha Alter died in 1976, perhaps confirmed further by [2]. For Andrée Bonhomme (Dec 1 1905-Mar 1 1982), this site. For Dinorá de Carvalho (relative of Eleazar de Carvalho?) "Brainyhistory" does claim June 1 1905 but as ever I have no clue where they get their information. this site agrees 1903-2000 for Rhoda Coghill. Avril Coleridge-Taylor, daughter of Samuel Coleridge-Taylor, died 1998 according to British Library this link. Schissel | Sound the Note! 22:35, 7 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Schissel. I actually meant in general those who were born very early in this century but who didn't have death dates, but that's also useful. Mak (talk) 01:33, 21 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

List organisation

I'm working on putting this list in birth order, and it occurs to me that this might be a more informative way for this list to be organised. Any thoughts? If there are no objections, I'll probably cut and paste it over from my userspace once I'm done (it's taking a surprisingly long time). Mak (talk) 01:33, 21 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

bettina brentano b.1785

she is in red on the page but she has a wiki page as Bettina Brentano von Arnim.

can someone fix this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.22.213.76 (talk • contribs)

Why not be bold and fix it yourself? ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ 16:09, 1 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Because making redirects is confusing? I'll do it, although 69.22. is welcome to make such changes in the future. Mak (talk) 17:21, 1 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Red links or not ?

Hello,

I added recently several female composers in the article "list of female composers". But of course, Wikipedia don't have articles about all of them, so there was some red links. And a user named Epeefleche has deleted all the red link names. But according to me, a list (instead of a category) must repertory ALL the names (even the female composers without article on wikipedia). So do I repertory the "red-linked-names", do I delete them, or do I add an external links toward an internet site which has an article for each name ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.243.236.99 (talk) 10:25, 11 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The general rule is that if an article COULD be made, it's allowed. Having a ref toward the notability -- emphatically NOT a direct link -- would not be a bad thing as a temporary measure. It has to be a reliable source establishing notability. But if there's no way a person could have an article that wouldn't be deleted, then they should not be added. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 13:48, 11 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The specific rule, for lists of people, is not what you indicate. Please see below.--Epeefleche (talk) 00:35, 12 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Please see WP:LISTPEOPLE -- the guideline pointed to in the relevant edit summaries. For a list of people, you are required to have either a wp article, or appropriate refs reflecting both the person's notability and that the person is a member of the list.--Epeefleche (talk) 00:35, 12 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

For some female composers, there are Wikipedia articles about them only on other languages than English. These composers have significiance as there are articles about them on Wikipedia. But Wikipedia-user Deskford has deleted all the names of the list which haven't articles in English (but which have articles in other languages). Why delete these names ? If in each language wikipedists keep only names which have a Wikipedia article in the corresponding language, so there will be an important proportion of French persons in the lists in French language, German persons in the lists in German language, etc. That seems silly, right ? So I think we must keep in the list all the names which have Wikipedia articles about them (in any language).User:JonathanRobrick (talk)

Every language Wikipedia establishes its own notability guidelines. Some are more strict than we are (German, for example); others less. We should determine whether or not a redlinked name can stay based on our own notability guideline (links to it provided above). Antandrus (talk) 14:11, 28 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

More information would be helpful. For example, do the articles on other wikis have RS-backed info that reflects both the notability of the person per eng wp standards, and that they are female composers, their birth dates, etc., as is suggested by listing them on the list?--Epeefleche (talk) 22:29, 29 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Selection of notable composers to mention in the text

There are nine listed in the text. Although it is not said, it might be implied that these are the best women classical composers? At any rate there are other lists, which can be compared. Radio station WQXR, New York, posted on March 11, 2011 a list "Top 5 Women Composers": Clara Schumann 1819–1896, Fanny Mendelssohn 1805—1847, Amy Beach 1867–1944, Hildegard von Bingen 1098—1179, and Lili Boulanger 1893—1918. These five are all amongst the 9 of today. So far, so good.

The Kapralova Society website gives, besides a long list of female composers, a short list of 6, verbal "portraits of selected women composers", Clara S., Fanny M., Amy Beach, Ethel Smyth 1858-1894, and two composers of special interest to the Society, Agathe Backer-Grøndahl, and Vitĕzslava Kaprálová 1915—1940, whose short life gave rise to commemoration. Marlindale (talk) 04:19, 5 May 2016 (UTC) Marlindale (talk) 04:27, 5 May 2016 (UTC) Marlindale (talk) 04:31, 5 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Also at the Kapralova Society site, a banner over the first page (accessed 5 May 2016) shows the following 12 women composers: Amy B., Lili Boulanger 1893—1918 (another life span about 25 years), Rebecca Clarke 1886—1979, Ruth Crawford Seeger 1901—1953, V. Kapralova, Elizabeth Maconchy 1907—1994, Ester Mägi 1922—, Fanny M., Dora Pejacevic 1885—1923, Clara S., Ethel Smyth, and Germaine Tailleferre 1892—1983. Marlindale (talk) 17:16, 5 May 2016 (UTC

Another classical radio station, "Classic fM", evidently in the UK and possibly in London, has posted a list "The great women composers", accessed 4 May 2016. The list of 21 composers is chronological by date of birth. The composers on this and at least one of the above-mentioned lists (current text, WQXR, Kapralova Soc. two lists) are Hildegard, Fanny M., Clara S., Amy B., Rebecca Clarke, Germaine Tailleferre, Lili Boulanger, and Ethel Smyth. Marlindale (talk) 17:31, 5 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

On the current list in the text, but not on any of the four lists mentioned in this Talk entry above, are the following four names: Nadia Boulanger 1887—1979, Imogen Holst 1907—1984 (daughter of the composer Gustav Holst), Violet Archer 1913—2000, and Thea Musgrave 1928—. Nadia Boulanger is highly notable as a teacher of composition, having had several leading composers among her students, for example Aaron Copland. Clara Schumann, who is on all the lists, is highly notable as a pianist.

I suggest omitting Holst, Archer, and Musgrave from the list of 9 in the text up until now, but I'll wait perhaps a week for reaction before acting. Nadia Boulanger seems a special case meriting special mention. Which names if any to add seems more complicated, I'll go into that in a separate edit. Marlindale (talk) 18:04, 5 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

To be added to the list in the text, I suppose a composer should be on at least two of the other four lists, and not just on both Kapralova Society lists. I'll give specific names in due course and wait some time about a week before implementing. Marlindale (talk) 18:25, 5 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

A name that could and I think should be added is Sofia Gubaidulina. She has won some 20 prizes for music, including the Polar Prize which seems to be a very high honor. She seems eminent not only among women composers but all composers. Marlindale (talk) 23:15, 5 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Picture caption: Clara Wieck?

It seems that "Clara Schumann" is shown at a young age when probably she was still Clara Wieck? Marlindale (talk) 21:06, 8 May 2016 (UTC) The same picture appears in the Clara Schumann article, there captioned "Clara Wieck, from an 1835 lithograph". So this was about 5 years before she married Robert. i'll see about changing the caption here. Marlindale (talk) 21:15, 8 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Sappho

Was Sappho technically a composer? She wrote lyric poetry " designed to be accompanied by music". Did she write this music? OTOH, back then little difference was made between poetry and music. Then again, the term mousike was used for all the arts associated with the Muses... Thoughts? Iadmc (Jubileeclipman) (talk) 03:24, 3 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

This is a perennial problem. Sappho is "traditionally" credited with various musical accomplishments, but of course there is no surviving music by her. Not only that, but the "traditional" attributions are vague, unlikely, and non-contemporary. For example, Pseudo-Plutarch claims she invented the Mixolydian tonos, which is a fairly tall claim to start with. Add to this the fact that Pseudo-Plutarch is generally dated about a millenium after Sappho's time, and that he vaguely waves his hand at Aristoxenus as his authority, but there is nothing in the surviving Aristoxenian literature about this, and you have got a very large pile of horse feathers.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 03:44, 3 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Nothing is mentioned of this in her article... I'll see if can source it. Any pointers? Thanks for the info Iadmc (Jubileeclipman) (talk) 03:54, 3 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

See the article Mixolydian mode for an even more second-hand (fourth-hand?) source for Pseudo-Plutarch.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 06:54, 3 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks — Iadmc ♫^talk 07:24, 3 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Ooh... my new sig looks quite nice! — Iadmc ♫^talk 07:25, 3 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

You'd better watch out. You can break your arm patting yourself on the back like that!—Jerome Kohl (talk) 07:35, 3 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

A flounder(er) has no arms... Anyway: not sure in what sense this is "Sappho's" Wedding Hymn... but there it is. Also, this points out what we knew, that poetry was intended to be sung (as well as adding to the Mixolydian myth). Perhaps she did write the music as well—as opposed to expecting her poetry to be intoned/sung by skilled improvizers or to music composed by others. I need to look into this more. This was just a quick search. I won't quibble about her entry here until I get more evidence. Thanks for piquing my interest! — Iadmc ♫^talk 09:23, 3 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Nannerl

Can we just remove Maria Anna Mozart? It's far from certain she was a composer, and any compositions by her have been lost. You wouldn't mention a male musician with the same status (performer and possibly a composer but nobody knows what any of their pieces were like) on any list of composers. Can't we just limit this list to figures whose contributions to music can be assessed and who are actually known to have composed? Steinbach (talk) 11:57, 16 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Is it uncertain? We know a LOT about the life of the Mozart family from their letters. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 12:14, 16 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'll quote the article: "There is evidence that Marianne wrote musical compositions, as there are letters from Wolfgang praising her work, but the voluminous correspondence of her father never mentions any of her compositions, and none have survived." But even if you accept this to be certain, there's still the problem that her contributions to music hardly qualify her as a composer. That's my problem with this list: it contains many biographies that say "she was a princess who wrote poetry, some of which she set to music." This list combines full-fledged women composers and people who were known for other things but happen to have jotted down a few notes as well - or might have done so.

I consulted this list to look for women composers from the classical era, whose music I might include in a radio broadcast. It isn't very helpful when many links lead to people whose contributions to music turn out to very meagre. I expect a link on a list of composers (women or otherwise) to lead to ... a composer.

Oh, and by the way: I hold a MA degree in musicology. You don't need to teach me about the Mozart family correspondence. Steinbach (talk) 15:58, 16 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[1] ttp://nla.gov.au/nla.party-1501151

[2] ttp://trove.nla.gov.au/version/15302689

[3] ttp://trove.nla.gov.au/version/7921215

[4] ttp://nla.gov.au/nla.party-580950

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