Talk:Tribulus terrestris

Spam?

This article sounds like an spam email for herbal viagra. The mentioned studies (if they exist and indeed are scientific studies) should be properly cited and some more information given or else the topic of supposed medical effects dropped entirely.

Well...then add them.

bogus

Ok, maybe bogus is too strong, but objective it isnt. I dont know what those studies are and a quick search on groups.google.com reveals plenty, plenty of skeptics.

Please, someone make this otherwise interesting wiki a little less biased.

I didn't write it, I was just editing/categorizing plant articles. But I'll take a look at it and see if I can verify some of the info. Sorry, some people are sloppy with that kind of stuff. --DanielCD 22:25, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I took out the med. study references for now. They can always be found in the history. I'm going to leave them out until I can find some decent references. Practically all I get from a quick search is advertisements, which aren't trustworthy. I am going to have to do some research on this one. Might be interesting. --DanielCD 22:49, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)

See [1] and [2] for references. —JerryFriedman 20:45, 23 Feb 2005 (UTC)

The article should probably be moved to make its common name the title: Puncture Vine. That's standard, if anyone's interested in doing it. --DanielCD 19:32, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I'll do it, since I'm responsible for the present name (and there aren't many links), but are we sure Puncture Vine is the best common name? That's what my Peterson guide calls it, but the OED says "caltrop", everyone here in New Mexico says "goatheads" (or toritos), and the name "yellow vine" seems to be common in Australia for this and maybe other species of Tribulus. I didn't count all the names I came across in my Web searches, but there must have been about twenty. —JerryFriedman 21:34, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Yes, there are always lots. I think Puncture Vine is the most common of all of them though. If you want to add a sentence telling other names it's known by, go for it. Don't wanna leave anyone out :)). --DanielCD 22:04, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)

We'll see how bored I get. :-) —JerryFriedman 22:34, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I've moved it to the sci name, so as to avoid the potential for disputes over which common name is best - MPF 01:24, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

I've grown up around the stuff, and never heard it called puncture vine. It was always called goat head weed. But the Genus species should definitely be used. Flight Risk (talk) 21:28, 24 February 2018 (UTC)

BIt confused, part of the article says it constantly failed to increase testosterone in several studies. Paragraph underneath says it's used to increase sex drive, and has consistently increased various hormones (including testosterone) in various animals. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.100.26.22 (talk) 20:31, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

Not Bogus

I found this article satisfactory, although I need to add my own personal experience. wheter or not it causes an increase in testosterone levels, it increases mental allertness. I never used any of its commercial product, but made a hot water extract to test it. Though not scientific, these lines may help reduce some confusion. Pubmed also concludes same as here. And by the way what is that GIYF jonatko?Wasiuddin 16:20, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

In my opinion, the article should be more emphatic about the invasiveness of this weed, which has been a major infestation of my buffalo grass area in eastern Nebraska. The plant seems quite innocuous until the fruit appears, and then it becomes quite dangerous to bare fingers, feet, and the feet of the pets that use the area as a toilet. As to its muscle-building properties, I can only attest to the development of my biceps as a result of pulling up and carrying away several hundred pounds of the stuff. And as to the naming of this weed, "puncture vine" hardly does it justice. Prior to my learning the common name, I had been calling it al qaida.Fancy8fran 22:42, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

to do

• Find out whether it's native or introduced in Africa.
  • GRIN lists it as native there (ref added on page) - MPF 01:22, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
• Check the etymology: is it really from Latin "tribulus", meaning "caltrop" (the weapon) (Yes, reference in text), and is that from Greek "tribolos", meaning "three-pointed"?
• Evaluate health claims (a major project for someone more knowledgeable than I am)

—JerryFriedman 22:39, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Also, since Ayurveda is mentioned, it's use in Chinese Herbal medicine could be added. It is called Bai Ji Li or Ci Ji Li and is primarily used to treat a variety of conditions including tremors, convulsions and visual problems. I looked it up at www.tcmassistant.com and also in Dan Bensky's Materia Medica 4th ed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.200.39.156 (talk) 05:30, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

serious doubt

If you read the actual studies listed in the ironman "reference" (that are relevant to humans) and the literature on www.pubmed.com, then there are no studies to suggest it is an ergogenic aid for weight trainers, nor does it increase testosterone; in fact quite the opposite. it may or may not have some effect for males who's HPGA has shutdown through use of anabolic steroids - havent looked into the evidence. Article is misleading in this respect. StrengthCoach 09:18, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. The article doesn't actually say that it helps weight trainers. First reference I'm going to add when I get time is http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15994038&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_docsum , though. —JerryFriedman 23:25, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Hey guys, pls don't forget GIYF: put into search its Indian name and dont be lazy: At least handful of references (http://www.toddcaldecott.com/Gokshura.html) Kind regards, jonatko

Achenbach, H. 1994. Cardioactive steroid saponins and other constituents from the aerial parts of Tribulus cistoides. Phytochemistry. Apr;35(6):1527-43 Anand, R. et al. 1994. Activity of certain fractions of Tribulus terrestris fruits against experimentally induced urolithiasis in rats. Indian J Exp Biol. Aug;32(8):548-52 Arcasoy, H.B. et al. 1998. , Effect of Tribulus terrestris L. saponin mixture on some smooth muscle preparations: a preliminary study. Boll Chim Farm Dec;137(11):473-5 Bensky, D. and A. Gamble. 1993. Chinese Herbal Medicine Materia Medica. Revised edition. Seattle: Eastland Press. Bourke, C.A. et al. 1992. Locomotor effects in sheep of alkaloids identified in Australian Tribulus terrestris. Aust Vet J. Jul;69(7):163-5 Duhan, A et al. 1992. Nutritional value of some non-conventional plant foods of India. Plant Foods Hum Nutr. Jul;42(3):193-200 Frawley, David and Vasant Lad. 1986. The Yoga Of Herbs: An Ayurvedic Guide to Herbal Medicine. Santa Fe: Lotus Press. Kirtikar KR and BD Basu. 1993. Indian Medicinal Plants. 2nd ed. Vol. 1-4. 1935. Reprint. Delhi: Periodical Experts. Li, J.X. et al 1998. Tribulusamide A and B, new hepatoprotective lignanamides from the fruits of Tribulus terrestris: indications of cytoprotective activity in murine hepatocyte culture. Planta Med. Oct;64(7):628-31 Nadkarni, Dr. K.M. 1976. The Indian Materia Medica, with Ayurvedic, Unani and Home Remedies. Revised and enlarged by A.K. Nadkarni. 1954. Reprint. Bombay: Bombay Popular Prakashan PVP. Tapia, M.O. 1994. An outbreak of hepatogenous photosensitization in sheep grazing Tribulus terrestris in Argentina. Vet Hum Toxicol Aug;36(4):311-3 Varrier, P.S. 1996. Indian Medicinal Plants: A Compendium of 500 species. Edited by PK Warrier, VPK Nambiar and C Ramankutty. vol 5. Hyderabad: Orient Longman. Wang, B. et al 1990. 406 cases of angina pectoris in coronary heart disease treated with saponin of Tribulus terrestris. Chung Hsi I Chieh Ho Tsa Chih. Feb;10(2):85-7, 68

Thanks. What's GIYF? By the way, if you're going to accuse people of being lazy, you might do more than dump in a bunch of references without checking which are relevant. —JerryFriedman 23:25, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Oh dear! I believe GIYF is an acronym for "Google is your friend". In my opinion Google can be your friend, but it may also be used to argue any point-of-view if you Google hard enough! 96.49.224.214 (talk) 00:58, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

WikiProject Food and drink Tagging

This article talk page was automatically added with {{WikiProject Food and drink}} banner as it falls under Category:Food or one of its subcategories. If you find this addition an error, Kindly undo the changes and update the inappropriate categories if needed. The bot was instructed to tagg these articles upon consenus from WikiProject Food and drink. You can find the related request for tagging here . If you have concerns , please inform on the project talk page -- TinucherianBot (talk) 11:46, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Major Omission

This plant causes Geeldikkop, the most important toxicological cause of sheep mortality in South Africa. Unfortunately, I'm not at varsity so I don't have access to materials needed to document this satisfactorally... A brief description is secondary photosensitivity after liver toxicity caused by processed steroidal saponins precipitating in the bile ducts. There have been outbreaks where millions of sheep have died. The plant is normally non-toxic and used as fodder in the dry Karoo regions. It is only when new growth wilts that, for unknown reasons it becomes toxic. This article: Kellerman TS, TW Naude, N Fourie (1996). "The distribution, diagnoses and estimated economic impact of plant poisonings and mycotoxicosis in South Africa". Onderstepoort Journal of Veterinary Research 63: 65–90. has lots on it if you can track it down. 41.247.136.219 (talk) 13:23, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

There might be a typo in the following sentence. Or at least should be made clearer.

"It is also claimed that Tribulus terrestris increases testosterone by increasing gonadotropin-releasing hormone with gonadotropic adaptogen compound contained in Tribulus terrestris (GnRH) which in turn stimulates the production of LH and follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH)." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.248.180.226 (talk) 00:17, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Wait, what was that?

In the overview at the top of the page, the plant is said to be "native to warm and tropical regions" (of the Old World), while in the "Growth" section, it is said to be a "summer annual of colder climates".

gynaecomastia?? I would be more than very surprised if it really appeared once! Even with testosterone, a high amount should be taken to experienced gynaecomastia.This is just something used by fabricants to promote the efficacity of their products. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.30.36.50 (talk) 09:50, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Slight slip-up, perhaps? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.126.50.159 (talk) 05:36, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Tyres

At the coast of southern Europe, this plant is known as "bike tyre killer". Should this be added to the article? Antonsusi (talk) 17:30, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

It's already mentioned under one of the photos... A common name for the plant in Turkey is çobançökerten otu with the meaning of lets the shephard tumble and the burs are really a hazard to bare feet and bicycle tire and sticks under shoes ;) --katpatuka (talk) 12:04, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

Eradication

If you're serious about eradication, then never walk past one. Stop and pull it right there. ;Bear (talk) 05:13, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

Wikipedia is a bit of a joke

It's basically impossible to edit anything these days without (Removed bad words) reverting your edit. Why do you people object to the addition of legitimate information just because it doesn't agree with your narrative? You do realise that studies in medical science often show contradictory results because of differences in the study population? One "reference" in this article is an n=7 study which makes it virtually useless as evidence, yet when I find a larger study with subtly different patients it gets memory-holed within seconds. I think some of you editors should probably get some proper postgraduate research training if you think you're capable of it. Polymath uk (talk) 15:10, 9 April 2021 (UTC)

The source added by Polymath uk in this reverted edit was a pilot experiment, as mentioned in its title, i.e., a preliminary study to assess whether a more complete trial should be conducted. A pilot study is the lowest quality of evidence in human research (at the level of case report), shown in WP:MEDASSESS. This PubMed listing shows there really are no quality reviews available on T. terrestris supplements, as the journals shown have poor impact factors or are on the WP:CITEWATCH list for low quality or predatory publishing practices. Wikipedia is not a journal or term paper where preliminary research is discussed for its pros and cons in the article; see WP:NOTJOURNAL #6-8. We are here to present facts represented in high-quality reviews, discussed in WP:MEDRS and WP:WHYMEDRS. I made this and other edits today to remove outdated and unreliable sources and content. Zefr (talk) 16:30, 9 April 2021 (UTC)

Style

Much of section Eradication is written like a "how-to" manual -- imperative/subjunctive. This is deprecated: WP:NOTAMANUAL. It needs to be recast as descriptive -- current practices, effective techniques etc. -- D Anthony Patriarche (talk) 16:58, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

Male sexual performance

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28364864/ 174.169.68.122 (talk) 11:02, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

Hi, as per the content guideline for identifying reliable medical sources, we are to avoid avoid primary sources.

The article link that you posted, Kamenov, Zdravko; et al. (2017). "Evaluation of the efficacy and safety of Tribulus terrestris in male sexual dysfunction—A prospective, randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled clinical trial". Maturitas. 99: 20–26. doi:10.1016/j.maturitas.2017.01.011., is a single study that is considered a primary source.

There is a systematic review of dietary supplements that discusses Tribulus terrestris:

• Petre, Gabriel Cosmin; et al. (2023-08-22). "Dietary Supplements for Erectile Dysfunction: Analysis of Marketed Products, Systematic Review, Meta-Analysis and Rational Use". Nutrients. 15 (17): 3677. doi:10.3390/nu15173677. ISSN 2072-6643. OCLC 10168461865. PMC 10490034. PMID 37686709.

It compares three studies & has an additional three citations.

I think it would be best if someone from WikiProject Medicine took a look at this systematic review & determined how best to add it to the Tribulus terrestris § Dietary supplement section. Peaceray (talk) 17:39, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

I have made requests for expertise at WT:MED, WT:WikiProject Alternative medicine, & WT:WikiProject Dietary Supplements. Peaceray (talk) 18:18, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

In the Discussion section on T. terrestris, the review authors state there are general doubts regarding its real effectiveness due to the high average risk of bias relating to the RCTs analyzed, as well as the high heterogeneity between them. which is a sufficient WP:REDFLAG to not use this source. Zefr (talk) 21:37, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

Or maybe it's a good reason to use it. Specifically, it could be used to support a sentence to say that the existing research has problems with Bias (statistics). WhatamIdoing (talk) 01:38, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

• Nutrients is an WP:MDPI journal, which is a red flag. Are there any more reputable sources? Bon courage 18:45, 19 August 2024‎ (UTC)

  It's one of their highest rated journals, so it's probably okay.[3]

  PMID 29633089 says mixed results. PMID 32358510 gave it an evidence quality rating of A for testosterone and C for erectile dysfunction. "A" means "strong positive evidence supporting their use" and "C" means "evidence was indeterminate". WhatamIdoing (talk) 20:14, 19 August 2024 (UTC)