Talk:Greenwich Village

one "citation needed" is absurd

The "citation needed" by the "Friends" building is absurd. I know Wikipedia likes citations on text, but the photo shows that this IS the building from the show and everybody can also see it live in the Village... so let's not be so absurd with citations. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.254.235.169 (talk) 00:46, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

unsorted topics

I fleshed out the "History" section (for example, differentiated between the Beat movement and the later folk movement (Bob Dylan), as well as rearranged some of the wordings to make sentences clearer.--PolPotPie 00:29, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Random User with a question: how can their be a West Village when your Greenich Village boundaries go all the way to the Hudson? I don't know if this is the right place to put this.

• This is how: Greenwich Village contains the West Village. The West Village is sometimes considered a subsection of Greenwich Village, and other times used as a synonym for all of Greenwich Village to distinguish it from the East Village, which is on the Lower East Side.

maps of each area in relation to the rest of the city would be nice. — Omegatron 22:30, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

According to a documentary I saw on the Stonewall Uprising, they said the West Village was distinguished solely to separate the area where gay people lived. Now, that is NOT my opinion, I think that is probably wrong, and when I heard it spoken I kind of winced at the mention. I'm pretty sure it was called the West Village in order to separate the higher-end residential area from the business area, more of a real estate thing, to be sure. Socioeconomically it went like this: East Village is lower middle class, Greenwich Village middle class, more where actors, musicians, artists, etc., lived and the business area (most likely, that is why it is considered the hub) and the West Village, which at a time was more family oriented and was the upper middle class area. Pookerella (talk) 22:41, 21 May 2017 (UTC)

Wouldn't it be a good idea to include the pronounciation of "Greenwich"? Rmisiak 07:10, 1 November 2005 (UTC) Just like you pronounce Greenwich Mean Time, i.e. the British way. Pookerella (talk) 22:41, 21 May 2017 (UTC)

Sapokanikan = "tobacco field": http://www.nyc.com/arts__attractions/Washington_Square_Park/editorial.aspx

In the first sentence it is said that Greenwich Village is also referred to as the West Village; isn't the East Village also part of Greenwich Village and thus this excludes it improperly? Fuhghettaboutit 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Wherever the facade shots of the Friends building were taken, isn't the show set on the Upper West Side? I always took for granted that the coffee shop was called Central Perk because it faced, you know, Central Park. --69.219.54.199 01:21, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

I’m interested in information about the Greenwich Village bohemian scene in the 1950’s and 1960’s. I feel this body of information is encyclopedically relevant. However, it seems that the page is focused primarily on Greenwich Village as a physical location. Is it possible to add more information about topics like Yoko Ono, Andy Warhol and pop art? Note: Andy Warhol has very little to do with Greenwich Village as a physical location but is perhaps relevant to the Greenwich Village as a cultural phenomenon.

What are people’s thoughts about:

• Adding more about Greenwich Village cultural phenomenon to the current page
• Adding more links to pages about the art scene in the 1950’s and 1960’s on the current page
• Making a separate page specifically about the art that has come from Greenwich Village
• Not worrying about this information and keeping everything pretty much as it is

Pstaight (talk) 03:53, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

Village vs. West Village

I was born and raised in "the village" (right smack in the middle, neither East nor West), and am a 4th generation native-born Manhattanite. I have never once heard "West Village" used to mean "all of the village". There is no way anyone familiar with the neighborhood would cite, say, Washington Square Park as being in the West Village. This portion of the entry is incorrect

161.185.1.100 20:37, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing that out. Feel free to edit the article and make the change, as well as any other improvements. -Aude (talk | contribs) 20:39, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

Exactly. There is an East Village (east of Broadway), a West Village (west of 6th Avenue) and the "Village," which is everything in between. Fifth Avenue is the "Village," some people call that area "Greenwich Village," intimatingthat it is Greenwich Village "proper." Even though the boundaries are very small, they are 3 completely different worlds. In the distant past, the socioeconomic partition was poor in the East, middle/working class in the Village, and upper middle class in the West. The East and West were, long ago in the past, primarily residential, and Greenwich Village was the center, where most of the shopping and other establishments were. Pookerella (talk) 21:42, 21 May 2017 (UTC)

Request clarification of Villages

OK, I'm slightly confused by the differences between "(The) Village", "East Village", "West Village", and "Greenwich Village". Could someone clarify this? Currently there's a contradiction of definitions. In the Japanese Wikipedia article (which I want to update), it says "the Village = West + Greenwich + East Villages", while the English Wikipedia article says "the Village = Greenwich Village", while "West Village" is left undefined.—Tokek 08:43, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

• That's because Manhattanites love to argue over silly things. :) Everyone agrees that "the Village" and "Greenwich Village" are synonyms. Everyone also agrees that the upper and lower bounds are Houston St and 14th St. The problem is that, historically, Greenwich Village only went as far east as Broadway (which is where 4th Ave would be in this part of town). When Greenwich was this small, anything west of maybe 7th Ave wasn't really "west". The area to the East was Bowery and Alphabet City (plus some gated communities in the far northeast that no one thinks of as in the Village). Some people go so far as to say that both of these neighborhoods were sub-neighborhoods of the Lower East Side. In the 80's, real estate developers started referring to Bowery & Alphabet City as "East Village". Here's where it gets nasty: the city government now considers EVERYTHING between Houston & 14th to be Greenwich Village, with the area that the irate person in the post above thought of as central Greenwich (AKA Washington Square) now being considered in the West part of Greenwich Village. --M@rēino 14:37, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

• I've only lived here a year, but here's how I view the whole situation. Greenwich Village & the West Village = The Village, while the East Village would never be referred to as simply "the Village". Again, I haven't lived here for that long, so what do I know? Alexandrewb 18:21, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

East vs West vs "The" Village

I think maybe I'm the person being referred to as "irate" (which I'm not, so forgive me if my tone suggested otherwise) so maybe I can clarify or confuse things further.

As I said, I was born and raised there, so this is the source of my authority, FWIW. In my experience, most long-term residents and natives understand "the village" to mean the superset, i.e. everything between Houston and 14th Street. Some people, though, view the "East Village" as being a distinct neighborhood, with some dispute about its western boundary. Some say Broadway, some say the Bowery, some say it depends on latitude. For instance, 4th Ave is east of Broadway, but its feel has always been pretty different from, say, St. Marks Pl. Lots of peope would think of, say 4th Ave and 9th St. as "the Village", and not the "East Village". There's no "official" answer to these conundrums (as there would be with, say borough boundaries, community districts, and police precincts, all of which were established by official legislative processes) because neighborhoods have no official meaning in New York City. They're just commonly (mis)understood areas. For pretty much any nabe in the city, there's disagreement about its borders, whether it's really part of something else, etc.

M@rēino wrote:

"The problem is that, historically, Greenwich Village only went as far east as Broadway (which is where 4th Ave would be in this part of town)."

FWIW, Broadway is not the equivalent of 4th Ave -- 4th Ave is (above Astor Place); Lafayette St. is below Astor Pl. Park Ave was originally called 4th Ave (before Madison Ave was built and confused everybody a bit more).

How old is "East Village"; Lower East Side vs. East Village -- the term "East Village" is definitely older than the 80s. For instance, there was a well known literary/bohemian newspaper in the 60s called the East Village Other. Also, I'm pretty sure you'll find the term used by a number of Beat writers (e.g., Ginsburg, and Kerouac, though I don't have specific references). I think it's fair to say that at some point, "Lower East Side" included what today would be thought of as the East Village, and that the distinction between the two probably first appeared post-war. My immigrant forebears wouldn't have thought of their north-of-Houston tenements as any part of the village. In my youth, the East Village was where hippie/boho/outsider white people lived. The Lower East side was where Puerto Ricans (and dwindling numbers of Jews) lived. Houston St. was sort of the dividing line, but really the distinction was more cultural/ethnic than geographic.

As someone who works for city government and deals extensively with geography and geopolitical boundary issues, I think that

"Here's where it gets nasty: the city government now considers EVERYTHING between Houston & 14th to be Greenwich Village"

overstates things. I'm sure there are some documents and publications that present the Village this way for some narrow governental purposes. However, city government doesn't "officially" define neighborhoods (which don't really have any official meaning or status). Generally, city gov tries to map neighborhood boundaries where it thinks most New Yorkers would put them; it probably gets this stuff wrong a good percentage of the time.

Southern boundary of Greenwich Village - Contrary to what seems to be popular perception, the 1956 edition of Encyclopedia Britanica states that the southern border of Greenwich Village is Spring Street. Spring Street is two blocks south of Houston Street. While it is presently accepted that the "Greenwich Village" and "Chelsea" districts of New York derive their names from similarly named places in London's metropolitan area, it is claimed that New York's "Soho" was not named after London's Soho. It is claimed that New York's Soho was named solely for it's position "South of Houston". If Britanica is correct, it seems that the southern boundary of the village was moved in order to justify Soho's name.ADeC (talk) 16:08, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Historical main roads?

The old map is great to have, but I'm having trouble figuring out which roads correspond to modern city streets. Can anyone layout perhaps where the central part of the village was back in, say, 1730 and what's there now? Thank you! --Jolomo 00:07, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

I added a citiation of why the village was referred to as Washington Square but I cannot fiture out how to mark it as the 4th citiation.

Alexander Hamilton

In Ron Chernow's biography of Alexander Hamilton, he writes that Hamilton was carried to a mansion that used to stand on Jane Street in the Greenwich Village, where he died on July 12, 1804. This is very important as it related to the famous death of a founding father of the country. Should it be included? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Here Comes a New Challenger!! (talk • contribs) 17:32, August 21, 2007 (UTC).

famous residents

Any objection to me scrapping the "famous residents" section of this page and replacing it with a category? --M@rēino 20:58, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

• Seeing no objections, I've made the change. --M@rēino 14:54, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

I've renamed it to the softer-sounding "Notable residents." I like the idea of just directing to a list but, typically, these kinds of section headings should still have some prose (even as simple as, "Several notable individuals have resided in Greenwich Village, including many writers, politicians, musicians..." or something). --Midnightdreary 15:55, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

• Good idea; I'm on it. --M@rēino 16:36, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Organization

I was confused when I was reading the Greenwich Village page. The some information was out of place, and, thus, made it the page somewhat hard to comprehend. I rearranged some of it and it would be nice if others reread the page and could help further organize it. Hpfa1 05:39, 6 February 20072008 (UTC)

• So just to be clear -- you were not removing or adding any information, just rearranging it? If so, I'll give you my support. There's nothing wrong with trying a new format to see if it works out. --M@rēino 23:14, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Gentrification and commercialization ironic?

"Ironically, what provided the initial attractive character of the community eventually contributed to its gentrification and commercialization" that's not ironic, unless one deems gentrification and commercialization as a negative aspect of the community, which it is not. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.186.170.167 (talk) 14:44, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

You deeming them positive is just as subjective as others deeming them negative. It's all in the eye of the beholder. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.64.104.4 (talk) 05:02, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

Category

The category Category:People from Greenwich Village, New York (recently deleted and now reinstated) contained the following before deletion (and now has 32).

1. Abbie Hoffman
2. Albert Pinkham Ryder
3. Allen Ginsberg
4. Amel Larrieux
5. Amy Sedaris
6. Anna Wintour
7. Barbara Pierce Bush
8. Bob Dylan
9. Dave Van Ronk
10. David Blue
11. Delmore Schwartz
12. Dorothy Canning Miller
13. Dylan Thomas
14. E. E. Cummings
15. Edgar Allan Poe
16. Edgard Varèse
17. Edna St. Vincent Millay
18. Edward Hopper
19. Eric Andersen
20. Eugene O'Neill
21. Floyd Dell
22. Frank O'Hara
23. Franz Kline
24. Gregory Corso
25. Guido Bruno
26. Gwyneth Paltrow
27. Hans Hofmann
28. Harry Everett Smith
29. Hart Crane
30. Heath Ledger
31. Henry James
32. Izzy Young
33. Jack Kerouac
34. Jackson Pollock
35. Jane Jacobs
36. Jeff Buckley
37. Jim and Jean
38. Jim Glover
39. Jimi Hendrix
40. Joan Baez
41. John LaFarge
42. John Lennon
43. John Reed (journalist
44. John Taylor Johnston
45. Lou Reed
46. Mabel Dodge Luhan
47. Marcel Duchamp
48. Margaret Sanger
49. Max Eastman
50. Michael Penn
51. Phil Ochs
52. Robert De Niro, Sr.
53. Robert Lopez
54. Robert Motherwell
55. Romany Marie
56. Sarah Jessica Parker
57. Thomas Wolfe
58. Tom Paxton
59. Tuli Kupferberg
60. Virginia Admiral
61. Willa Cather
62. Willem de Kooning
63. Yoko Ono

-- roundhouse0 (talk) 13:21, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Help - I'm trying to find the actors to the 1944 movie: Greenwich Village

I entered this area by googling Don Ameche. Found him and went to th elist of all his movies and clicked on Greenwich Village (1944). For whatever reason, it brought me to a history of the actual area and there is nothing on the page that has to do with the movie, its characters and actors, music, etc. There is a bad link or someone has edited out the data on the movie. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 159.39.23.33 (talk) 16:24, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

• Try this link:[1] Modernist (talk) 16:48, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Gigante Did not live in Geenwich Village

Gigante Did not live in Geenwich Village - he lived in two homes, with two families - with his wife and their five children in New Jersey, and in a town house on the exclusive Upper East Side: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2003/mar/27/ukcrime.health?commentpage=1

Gigante, 74, has been boss of the Genovese organised crime family of New York since the mid-1980s. It was an extraordinary reign, characterised by duplicity: he lived in two homes, with two families - with his wife and their five children in New Jersey, and with his mistress and their three children in a town house on the exclusive Upper East Side. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mynameisstanley (talk • contribs) 17:05, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Gigante also lived at home with his mother Yolanda Gigante on La Guardia Place in Greenwich Village. Strolls in Robe Notwithstanding, Mob Figure Must Stand Trial, The New York Times, August 29, 1996 - Mafia Expert (talk) 17:49, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

This NY Times Did Not report that he lives with his mother. Gigante's attorneys claim he lives at home with his mother. Law enforcement's surveillance says otherwise "Gigante's attorneys say that he now leads a very narrow existence, lives at home with his mother" Strolls in Robe Notwithstanding, Mob Figure Must Stand Trial, The New York Times, August 29, 1996] Mynameisstanley (talk) 22:30, 1 August 2008 (UTC)Mynameisstanley

The judge concluded that Mr. Gigante was still faking it today. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mynameisstanley (talk • contribs) 22:33, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Today? Vincent Gigante passed away in 2005: Vincent Gigante, Mafia Leader Who Feigned Insanity, Dies at 77. - Mafia Expert (talk) 02:20, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Please remove from Gigante from "Greenwich Village", sub-section "present day" First, it category is "Greenwich Village", sub-section "present day" Gigante went to prison in 1997 and died there. Second, Gigante did not live in Greenwich Village. His lawyers claimed he lived there and that he was insane. Gigante later admitted in court that the whole thing was a scam.

The article is about "Greenwich Village" not a criminal who use to walk around there for a scam.

Vincent Gigante grew up on the same streets in Greenwich Village where he would spend most of his adult life. Vincent Gigante, Mafia Leader Who Feigned Insanity, Dies at 77 He was born and raised there. Whether in later life he actually lived there or not, is not the point. He spent most of his days in Greenwich Village and was a characteristic figure wandering the streets in his bathrobe and slippers, mumbling incoherently to himself. That this was an elaborate act is also not the point: he acted it out in Greenwich Village. All in all, I think it deserves to be mentioned in an article on Greenwih Village. If you think it does not belong under 'Present day', put it under 'History' or – maybe – in 'In fiction and drama'. - Mafia Expert (talk) 13:50, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

As a side observer to this debate, I would say that definitions of 'lived in' are beside the point. This information deserves to go in the Vincent Gigante page, not the Greenwich Village page. Its not about the village - mumbling incoherently in a bathrobe does not make a historically noteworthy impact on the neighbourhood as a neighbourhood. Miscreant (talk) 14:45, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

References

Edit War

Cool it already. Stop the WP:EDITWAR. You both have violated WP:3RR policy and can be blocked. Take it here: Wikipedia:Dispute resolution if you can't work it out here. Modernist (talk) 10:32, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

I went to Dispute resolution and posted my argument Mynameisstanley (talk) 02:30, 3 August 2008 (UTC)Mynameisstanley

Thank you, lets resolve the dispute there over the next day or so....Modernist (talk) 02:42, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Page protection

I have requested page protection to lock editing on the article. Please calmly and professionally discuss this issues here as team mates. Thanks, NonvocalScream (talk) 04:59, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Consensus

The immediate goal is to stop edit-warring. Hopefully these issues will be decided here. The article does not require constant lifelong residency in the Village to be included as being a notable facet of Greenwich Village legend, lore and reality. The Gigante issue is clear that even if he did not live there - he was an important fixture, legend, symbol and colorful character around and in Greenwich Village. I agree that any residential characterization can be removed, but Gigante as a Greenwich Village figure and fixture - should stay in the article. As a notable figure and as a representative of a particular facet of Greenwich Village folklore - and Little Italy, Vincent Gigante does belong in the history section of the Village...Modernist (talk) 14:45, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

How about this as new text:

Sullivan St. was home to Genovese crime family godfather Vincent "The Chin" Gigante. Born and raised in the Village he would spend most of his adult life there, although in later life he moved to New Jersey and the Upper East Side. Feigning insanity to escape prosecution, his lawyers claimed that Gigante lived at home with his mother Yolanda Gigante on La Guardia Place. He would emerge from his mother's apartment dressed in a bathrobe and pajamas or a windbreaker and shabby trousers. Accompanied by one or two bodyguards, he crossed the street to the Triangle Civic Improvement Association – a dingy storefront club that served as his headquarters – where he played pinochle and held whispered conversations with his associates. Shortly before his death in federal prison, he told a fellow inmate: "Greenwich Village is the greatest place in the U.S." - Mafia Expert (talk) 15:30, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Most of that belongs in the Gigante article, nearly all of it is about his biography...This article is about Greenwich Village, and its history. In the scheme of things he's just one character among many. We could write a long biographical history of Eugene O'Neill or Joan Baez too....but that's not the point....one or two sentences can do it. The first two sentences above look fine to me. Thats enough, he was born there, he lived there, and then he lived somewhere else - Done, thats enough. - Modernist (talk) 15:40, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Well, maybe - but I would say that the last sentence also should be kept. - Mafia Expert (talk) 16:03, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Agreed...the 3 sentences can work, with your final reference as well. Modernist (talk) 16:13, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Fine, I hope everybody else agrees as well. - Mafia Expert (talk) 16:18, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

References

Origin of Greenwich name

I think some proof should be given of a Dutch origin of Greenwich or remove that statement altogether. I changed probably to possibly, because without proof no way can one support the definite statement. Myself I don't think it is Dutch as New Amsterdam went nowhere near far North enough to include Greenwich Village.--Amedeo Felix (talk) 12:53, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

There appears to be independent scholarly support for a Dutch origin of the Greenwich Village name (see quote from The New Netherland Project web site below). 199.227.73.42 (talk) 16:37, 18 February 2009 (UTC)RJaffeEsq@aol.com

“Through the Dutch period, the village that sprang up here was called Noortwyck (“North District”) since it lay to the north of New Amsterdam. The name Greenwich sounds purely English, and most people assume as much, but they assume incorrectly. In the 1670s, when Yellis Mandeville moved here and bought property, he took with him the name of a Dutch village near where he had lived on Long Island, which has long since disappeared but which was then known as Greenwijck, or Pine District. The first record of the name change to Greenwich Village occurs in Mandeville’s will, in 1696, so it seems likely that he was responsible for the new name and thus that “Greenwich” was an Anglicization of a Dutch name.” From the The New Netherland Project web site (established under the joint sponsorship of the New York State Library and the Holland Society of New York (http://www.nnp.org/vtour/regions/Manhattan/greenwich-village.html).

Here's another link, which seems to have copied the above: http://www.newnetherlandinstitute.org/history-and-heritage/digital-exhibitions/a-tour-of-new-netherland/manhattan/greenwich-village/. The name "Greenwijck" is also found on the Dutch Wikipedia, but (as always) without references. Since the article mentions "Groenwijck", not "Greenwijck", and there's a few web pages that support that, I changed the translation to "green district" (from "pine district"), so the name and translation are in line. A more authorative reference on the matter is appreciated though. Jalwikip (talk) 20:21, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

My father has done thorough research into this subject. It seems Yellis Mandeville is my 8x-Great grandfather. If you examine Page 159 of Volume 6 of I.N. Stokes's "The Iconography of Manhattan Island, 1498 - 1909 (v. 6)," you will find the following: "Presumably Capt, Warren named Greenwich House. But the neighbourhood has been called Greenwich for nearly half a century. The earliest mention of the name in the records, as applied to this section, is in the will of 'Yellis Mandeville of Greenwich' in the County of New York,' dated Tuesday, Sept. 15, 1696. --Liber Wills, I: 372 (old p. 109) (New York)." This is all viewable from http://www.columbia.edu/cu/lweb/digital/collections/cul/texts/ldpd_5800727_006/ at the time of this comment. Mattomynameo (User talk:Mattomynameo) 06:00, 3 January 2015 (UTC)

Just a history hint

Book from 1939: Change the world! , p. 48: The chorus appears, dressed in another variation of gold and silver; some humor about homosexuals in a Greenwich Village scene .... --Franz (Fg68at) de:Talk 05:59, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Request map

Can we get a map of where Greenwich village is in relation to other neighborhoods in Manhatten? Michael Kirschner (talk) 00:35, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Village boundaries

I'm not sure what exactly the boundaries are of the village and the west village, but the article can't be right in that it says 7th ave. is the western boundary of the village, and then says that the west village is the portion of the village west of 7th. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.112.109.225 (talk) 17:56, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

The West Village is a separate district from Greenwich Village, according to the New York City Landmarks Preservation Commission. http://www.nyc.gov/html/lpc/html/maps/maps_manh.shtml —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.247.208.171 (talk) 14:19, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

At the Cafe Society

(From the article Josh White:)

"It is impossible to divorce Josh White's unprecedented rise to international fame in the 1940s from the Cafe Society nightclub. Located in New York's Greenwich Village, the Cafe Society was the first integrated nightclub in the United States, where blacks and whites could sit, socialize and dance in the same room and enjoy entertainment. It opened in late 1938 with a three-month engagement of Fletcher Henderson's Orchestra, Billie Holiday and comedian Jack Gilford, immediately making it New York's hottest club.

One day, John Hammond asked White to meet Barney Josephson, the owner of the club. As soon as Josephson heard White and saw the charisma he exuded, he told Hammond that White was going to become the first black male sex symbol in America. It was Josephson who decided at that first encounter, on the stage apparel he would have designed for White - that would become a trademark for years to come - a black velvet shirt open to the stomach and silk slacks. While starring at the Cafe Society over the next decade and becoming exposed to audiences, performers and beautiful music from around the world, White expanded his musical interests and repertoire to include a variety of styles which he would then subsequently record. He had remarkable success in popularizing recordings with a diverse group of musical genres, which ranged from his original repertoire of the Negro blues, gospel and protest songs, to Broadway show tunes, cabaret, pop, and white American, English and Australian folk songs.

The Greenwich Village club was so successful that Josephson soon opened a larger Cafe Society Uptown, at which White also performed, gaining him recognition by the New York Times as the "Darling of Fifth Avenue". The Roosevelt family, New York society, international royalty, and Hollywood stars regularly came to see White at the Cafe Society, and he used his fame and visibility to create, foster and develop relations between blacks and whites, making him a national figure and voice of racial integration in America.

He was thought to have numerous romantic liaisons with wealthy society women, singers, and Hollywood actresses, but the rumors were never substantiated. The women in question always referred to White as their close friend, and Lena Horne and Eartha Kitt also referred to him as a mentor.

The Cafe Society made White a star and put him in a unique position as an African American man. However, because of the club's unique social status of mixing the races, it also became a haven for New York's social progressives whose politics leaned to the Left. As it played a vital role in White's ascendance to stardom, it would also one day play a crucial role in his fall from grace."

If Cafe Society was located in Greenwich Village, shouldn't it be mentioned in this article, maybe a whole section about Cafe Society, considering the great importance Cafe Society had on the process of integrating afro-americans into the white society and the importance Cafe Society had as a meeting place for many musicians of all races and social and political activists? Roger491127 (talk) 21:13, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

Added the Cafe, thanks...Modernist (talk) 22:47, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

Join Us! Wikipedia Edit-a-thon: Greenwich Village in the 60s on November 2nd

Jefferson market

Join the Jefferson Market Library, Wikimedia NYC, and the Metropolitan New York Library Council for an all-day Wikipedia Edit-a-thon on Saturday, November 2nd at the Jefferson Market Library in Greenwich Village.

The Edit-a-Thon will help complete Wikipedia articles about the history of Greenwich Village, as well as the public art, community gardens, and library branches in the area. Editors will have the opportunity to utilize rare items from the Greenwich Village Collection, which holds over 150 books on the history of New York City.

Wikipedians will be on site to provide basic and advanced training on editing articles and working with images. Questions regarding the use of Wikipedia in classrooms, libraries, archives, and museums all over the world are welcome.

No special Wiki knowledge is required to participate. Just bring your enthusiasm and a love of Greenwich Village!

Event Details

• Event Page on Wikipedia
• METRO announcement]

Location: New York Public Library, Jefferson Market Library in the East Village Address: 425 6th Ave, New York, NY 10011 Date: Saturday, November 2nd

Broadway theater and Greenwich Village

Any discussion of Greenwich Village is not complete without mention its central role in the Broadway Musical Wonderful Town staring Rosalind Russell. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.16.5.208 (talk) 03:12, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

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I checked the above links but unfortunately, Cyberbot just added archived copies of two 404 "page not found" pages. I have notified the bot owner of the issue. I will also fix the links manually if possible with older archived copies. TheBlinkster (talk) 15:24, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

Pair of crypts discovered at NYU Greenwich Village campus

http://news.yahoo.com/centuries-old-burial-vaults-found-beneath-nyc-street-172926241.html November 2015. Has anyone else heard about this? Where exactly on the campus was this found? Do you think it deserves a mention in the article (or one of the connecting articles)? --RThompson82 (talk) 01:33, 5 December 2015 (UTC)

Why are all the "notable residents" so contemporary?

As shown by the category "People from Greenwich Village", there are a lot of folks who were notable in past eras, many of whom are still notable today, who lived in the Village. Yet, the "notable residents" list on this page seems to just include recent people. I can see needing to feature a selective list on the article page, but a list that's so heavy on recent people seems to be ignoring the history of the neighborhood. Any thoughts on or objection to restructuring the list so it's got a few more of the residents from the past? Everybody will also still be in the overall category. TheBlinkster (talk) 05:59, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

Hearing crickets, I went ahead and changed a couple more recent or lesser known people out and put in a couple who were older and more known. TheBlinkster (talk) 21:18, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

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Did "up the river" originally refer to Sing Sing or Newgate?

The Sing Sing article says "The expression 'up the river' to describe someone in prison or heading to prison derives from the practice of sentencing people convicted in New York City to serve their terms in Sing Sing. The prison is literally up the Hudson River from the city. The slang expression dates from 1891." The Greenwich Village article says "being sentenced to Newgate became known as being 'sent up the river', an expression which carried over when it was replaced by the new Sing Sing Prison in Ossining, New York." (Newgate closed in 1829.) Either it originally referred to Newgate and is much older than 1891, or it dates only to 1891 and always referred to Sing Sing. Either the Sing Sing article is wrong about the origin and the date or the Greenwich Village article is wrong about the origin and the carry over.47.139.43.80 (talk) 05:04, 17 March 2019 (UTC)

The Sing Sing article is wrong. According to this book it was in use at least in 1825, which is well before Newgate closed. I don't know where 1891 comes from. epicgenius (talk) 16:11, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

@Ɱ: Pinging because this is a relevant discussion. Maybe 1891 is when the slang term "up the river" was popularized. But it definitely was being used earlier than that. epicgenius (talk) 17:12, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

Someone mentioned this very discrepancy on the Sing Sing article's talk page, back in 2008. The same IP user as above also mentioned this on Sunday in the Sing Sing talk. I found that Etymonline among other sources cite Sing Sing as the sole object of the term. I saw that the one book, seemingly a pretty casual or gift-shop-friendly history of the city, lists Newgate as the first use, though it doesn't provide any information as to when, where, how, or anything, nor does it give a citation (which it does for other facts). Are there any better sources, any concrete examples of usage with regard to Newgate? ɱ (talk) 22:41, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

Preservation

The entire preservation section is currently written with clear editorializing in favor of preservationists. Most sources are taken from one perspective, and parts were (or still are) written in a narrative-style, rather than stating the facts or presenting conflicting arguments. The worst section were the NYU disputes, which I have mostly fixed, however issues still remain in the overall section. k-w (talk) 08:48, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Cornelia Street (song) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 21:19, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

Population Density

The articles on New York neighborhoods that I know all have a sidebar of facts like population per square mile, up near the top, where it is easy to find on your phone.

I just scrolled through the article without finding that. Of course it's a very large article, so I'm not saying for sure it's not there. But it is not near the top where it would be easy to find. JMassengale (talk) 15:29, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

My apologies. It is there. Can I delete my comment?

This is very odd. I scrolled through the article 3 times without seeing the quick facts box. Again my apologies JMassengale (talk) 15:32, 9 November 2023 (UTC)