Talk:The Crystal Palace

Dimensions

I'm a bit confused about the dimensions of the building. The article states that the building is 110 fet tall with an interior height of 408 feet. Menright63 (talk) 06:32, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps it was built like the TARDIS? :) I've amended it to match what the reference says, i.e., 408 feet interior height. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 13:03, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

The dimension given in the reference is manifestly wrong. It would make the structure taller than it was wide which contemporary images show clearly not to be the case. The first figure of 110 feet is right and confirmed by reconstructed models and geometric analysis using the known 24 ft structural module. (Sunand Prasad (talk) 11:35, 5 April 2008 (UTC))

Crystal Palace Park

I agree with the last comment. Crystal Palace Park deserves a different page from the Crystal Palace. The current situation causes confussion as these two things are not the same. - getafix

WHy do you people (i dont know who) keep combining teh artcile on teh place crystal pacae with the artcile about the bfamous building? or shoudl the building one be renamed The Crystal Palace? - fonzy

learn how to type —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.90.140.177 (talk) 01:13, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

Move from Hyde Park

When they moved the building from Hyde Park, where did they move it to? Various sources say Sydenham, Anerley, Penge and Upper Norwood (Even Wikipedia is internally inconsistent). The High Level station was in Sydenham, the Low Level Station is in Anerley, but the whole site was in Penge. I have not looked at a recent map but the Western boundary of the Crystal Palace Park was also the boundary between Penge and Anerley wards (both in PUDC and London Borough of Bromley). I know that Anerley ward has been replaced by Crystal Palace ward but I don't know if that included boundary changes Bebofpenge 09:28, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

From the maps i've seen, they seem to moved it to part of the parish of Battersea along the edge of Dulwich Wood where the upper level station was put a couple of decades later. Alec - U.K. 08:50, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

It runs along a boundary ! See Microsoft Live Maps--195.137.93.171 (talk) 02:38, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

At that time Penge was in the Parish of Battersea in the County of Surrey. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bebofpenge (talk • contribs) 11:57, 29 June 2021 (UTC)

Aerial target

Well, they shouldn't. Shame on them. BTW, would you please provide sources for the "reason it didn't make money" thing and the "target for the Germans" thing? --Ed Poor

ok i will but what eaxclty do you mean about the germans thing thats what they did. They decided to take them down because they feard th germans coudl navgate there way around. But it was stupid as they coudl use anything. Aot of stuid thinsg were doen then.

example: teh shop bromley and russel, in Bromely tehy blackend out the name bromely becaus ethey thought the germans woudl know where tehy were if tehys aw teh word Bromely. - fonzy

I'm interested in battles, and I would like to know more about what people of various cities have done to lower their risk of aerial bombardment. If I get enough info, I could write an article about it. Cheers. --Ed Poor

Water towers

-ok well i'm not quite shore how to implement a source or where to get one for the two water towers being taken down. It was a shame though. TV began in the south one. Logaie baird did his test TV transmissions from it. - fonzy

-- Ed poor do you wnat to help me on this article. - fonzy

What you've done is great. You can do more here, or branch out to other things you know about. Hmm, maybe I'll spell-check it. --Ed Poor

-well i want abit of help as there is an awful lot to write about On this buidling. - fonzy ps if your intrested in history this is quite intresting. I especilaly like lokking at old phots of the place. (maybe its beaue i live in the area.

---

How did the water towers enhance the Crystal Palace's image? I understand that Joseph Paxton was a gardener and designed the building and also worked with the fountains, but why are the towers so important? - MADDIE.WAVE

Name

I'm not shore but was it Punch Magazine that gave it the name "Crystal Palace". - fonzy

Punch usually gets the credit, but Punch's first use in November is predated by 'The Leader', no 17, July 20 1850 (p.1): "In more than one country we notice active preparations for sending inanimate representatives of trade and industry to take up their abode in the crystal palace which Mr. Paxton is to build for the Exposition of 1851. The Commissioners, we learn from the Daily News, have decided on Mr. Paxton's original and remarkable design." Source: http://britishperiodicals.chadwyck.co.uk.

--Dannyno (talk) 17:29, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

what new technology was displayed at the crystal palace? MADDIE.WAVE

Paxon's daughter is Annie, not Alice. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.113.121.24 (talk) 17:55, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

Pictures

Pictures? Does anyone ahve pictures ones taht acan be used. Pictures of what it was like. What remains? - fonzy

I may have some pictures of the dinosaurs by the south lakes that I took myself- when I come accrosss them I'll scan them in- I've a feeling they may have my children in as well tho, in whaich case they wouldn't be suitable... BTW I used to be obsessed with the crystal palace dinosaurs when I was a child! quercus robur

I may go out and take a picture of what remains of teh North and South bases myself. - fonzy

Fonzy's father

rE-WRITTEN ARTCILE BY FONZYS FARTHER

- thankyou for adding it on 62.7.111.139 (mick) ironicly i just gonme on hen you added it, but why did you say it was yor farther origianlly? - fonzy

- because I cut and pasted teh comment you left at the bottom, which said "my farther" and I did not notice til it was too late.

- ooo i see, ok. Well the artcile does need to be npoved abit

Dinosaurs

I believe the dinosaurs have been finnished renovating. its still closed off so that trees can grow i bileive - fonzy

fonzy- how did you get the photo's? Can the public now get to the dinosaur area? my children were really disappointed to find that area sealed off when we went there last summer... quercus robur

Those photo's I took were on a special tour lst summer when they were redeveloping them, just to show people what was going on. At the moment the area is still celaed off to the public becuase they want the new trees to grow, but i heard ppl can go seem them on tours, btu i beilevthey are painted in their original colours, which is not i dont think the colocurs you will remebmber them. - fonzy

o btw Latest News The whole of the Top Site is now closed off as tehy are tidying it up from all the tipping and hazadous material. They are now asking ppl in Bromley what tehy want to happen to the top site. Its annoying It being closed off i wnated to get better picture of the higehr level station. I did take one of the North and South Bases of teh watertowers, the laste remaing collum and some omore terraces. - fozny

PS if you want to suggestion anything about teh top site, therea a form on bromley councils website www.bromley.gov.uk

---

Re dinosaur statues- you are right, the megalosaur is a little to the left isn't it? Thanks for spotting that :-) quercus robur

jsut wondering. are you going to add taht photo to Crystal Palace/Images ?

Um not really sure how to do it- feel free to if you want to tho... i'd like to keep it on the main crystal palace page as well tho.... the photo is at Image:Iguanodon1.jpg- cheers quercus robur

That's an extremely confusing first sentence. I had to read through it twice just to understand it. Maybe someone could change it? Pingveno 03:11, 4 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Love the article... but just a quick comment on the sentence about the dinner inside the iguanadon. This is incorrect (you can see by the size of the model that there is no way you could fit 20 people in there. A dinner did take place in 1854, but it was infact inside the mould of the iguanadon that stands on four feet. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.118.123.175 (talk) 21:22, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Tragedy

"But on 30 November 1936 came the final tragedy"

As I understand it, it's only a genuine tragedy if there's actual loss of life and limb, although informally you might refer to the loss of a beloved building as tragic. Lee M 19:27, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)

St Paul's

I've removed the words ", but the same could have been said about St Paul's Cathedral"

It's a valid opinion, but I don't think they belong in an article about the Crystal Palace. Perhaps they could be moved to Battle_of_Britain.--jmd 02:08, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

Wikification

Many of the links here seem to be inappropriately wikified - why link to water when talking about water towers?

Crystal Palace and Edward VIII's abdication

The burning down of the Crystal Palace occurred a few days before Edward VIII's abdication - should this be mentioned?

As far as I know no conspiracy theory has been proposed. Jackiespeel 16:39, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

Why did it burn?

Can anyone explain why a building of glass and steel burnt completely to the ground. What was in it to make it burn so vigorously? Perhaps an explanation of the low temperature required for deformation of steel?--Mcginnly 22:37, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

It had alot of wood flooring, but the actual reason for burning down is a mystery. And why are there no images of the crystal palace at syndem? there are three of the 1851 building.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.41.0.14 (talk • contribs) .

Even though Wikipedia has over 24 references listed, there was a good amount of information that was missing regarding the Crystal Palace. As a humanities student, I would need a lot more than just the names of the builders and a couple funny stories associated with it. I would need to know the significance of the Crystal Palace and why the Great Exposition of 1851 was so unique. I would have Wikipedia add the ideas of nationalistic pride that was going on in that time and how the Crystal Palace acted as a showcase to the rest of the European nations the greatness of Britain. From all across the continent, superpowers were showing off the latest inventions their brightest thinkers had created from timepieces to small steam engines. However, since it was Britain who was putting it on, they made sure that they had the most inventions there, probably the most impressive of which was the actual building. Wikipedia did say that the palace was made of iron and glass because of those materials dexterity, however they neglected to mention why it was so important for that time. Previously buildings such as cathedrals would have taken generations to complete. The palace was a marvel in that it was as large as most cathedrals and was built in only 6 months! Even more important was the fact that it was made out of iron and glass, two very new materials that had not been ever used in large buildings, previously they used stone. I would also have wished that Wikipedia could have elaborated more on the importance of the elm trees being encased in the palace. The enlightenment period brought about a movement that people were in charge of their own lives and used rationality to determine decisions. In addition, this time brought about the idea that humans did not have to be subject to nature. Having just emerged from the Enlightenment period, the palace did just that! The encased elm trees showed that Britain had mastery over their environment and were no longer subject to Mother Nature.

The Cyrstal Palace contained a lot of wood: "205 miles of sash bars ... 33 million cubic feet of flooring ... enormous quantities of wooden walling, louver work and partitions." This is quoted from Charles Dickens's description. See the site : http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/course/48-305/ppts/crystal_palace.ppt#262,3,Charles Dickens said of the projectEttormo (talk) 13:51, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

I used to work with a man called Paul Terry who was the head of the BBC's video recording team in the 1970s. As a 16 year old youth he had worked for John Logie Baird at the Crystal Palace labs. I asked him once why the palace had burned down, if it was made of iron. He replied that the glass was held in place by wooden frames which were of substancial size. About a quarter of what was visible in photographes of the buidling was actually this wood and not ironwork. As in the Summerland disaster in 1973, fire can burn fast up the vertical walls of a building if the material is inflammable. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Stephen.redburn (talk • contribs) 11:50, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

There was no flammable material in the upper glass panels; the window frames on the lower stories had some wooden frame elements, yes. The main ingredient in the initial stages of the fire was the flooring; it appears that a discarded cigarette in a ladies' washroom may have started a slow-smoldering fire which gradually spread through the spaces between the floor joists; when this gained access to the open air, it may have ignited quite suddenly. Chairs, furniture, the wooden enclosure surrounding the great pipe organ, and other contents of the Palace were the second sorts of things ignited. The glass enclosure captured the superheated air, and worked as a sort of furnace; eventually the heat was great enough to weaken the iron elements, and even melt the glass (you can still find little round globules of glass at the site). The BBC's website had a good description of a modern fire reconstruction from which I have drawn these details, but it's been offline for some years now -- I will see if I might be able to recover it via the WayBack machine.Clevelander96 (talk) 15:41, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

According to Spike Milligan, his father attributed the fire to the Navajo. Mr Larrington (talk) 09:23, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

Other "crystal palaces" should be relegated to a subsection ...

... instead of dominating the leading paragraph. The lead paragraph at the moment is less than 1/4 about the primary subject of the article, and 3/4 about imitations of it in other places, which completely distorts the article. I will come back and fix this when/if I have time, but maybe others could tackle this sooner. Ian Page 07:36, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism

In the 'Relocation' section, I see two segments '___________Nick was here___________' and a part of the text is in a box. It is not part of the editable text. 212.8.192.18 14:41, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

"photoshoped" image of the fire

This image is just some unknown dude's fantasy of what the fire might have looked like. It contributes absolutely nothing to the article. Why is it here? SECProto 18:12, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

The image was innacurate (it was of the 1851 building instead of 1854) and there are plenty of REAL photos of the fire.

Then shouldn't they be added? Jackson Smith 23:56, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Sunday opening

To head a section "Decline" is to accept that arrangements at the Crystal Palace were not static it's entire 82 year history. My Information comes from "the Palace of the People" Jan Piggot 2004 ISBN 1850657270. Page 59 "By a legal subterfuge the Palace and Park were eventually opened on Sundays, but not till 1860. Note 225. On one Sunday in May 1861 there were 40,000 visitors." Note 225 refers to P. Gurney in "The Great Exhibition of 1851 by Purbrick" 2001. page 124. Prefaced on page 58 of Piggott are the words "On Sundays the parks and interiors at Hampton Court Palace and Windsor Castle were open, as Kew Gardens had been since 1841, while the British Museum and National Gallery remained closed."

Perhaps the get out clause was that the Crystal Palace was both a park and a building as well as a private company.Interestingly enough there is a report of a gathering of shop-girls and apprentices at the Palace to protest for half Saturdays in the Art Journal, but can I find it?

Regards Alcohol. Piggott page 59 "The Crystal Palace Company applied for a licence to sell liquor without asking the shareholders, petitioning the Queen in Council in February 1855. The licence was granted, reneging on the original Charter. N227" The note refers to the Crystal Palace Herald of 4 April 1855.

In the Guide [1855 edition] the price listve is as follows

"Tisane de Champagne (not sparkling) 5s 6d Sparkling Moselle 7s 6d Port 4s. half bottle 2s. Claret 4s. half bottle 2s. Burgundy (Beaune) 5s. 6d. Bottled Ale or stout1s Coffee 6s. Tea 6s.

I'm not sure what ‹The template Talkfact is being considered for merging.›  means and will try to start again. The whole disputed section disappearred! I promise I will have all my citations to hand next time, I thought I had the night to sleep on it.Victorian Aesthete (talk) 10:09, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Inaccuracy in height and glass area

A comment by User:Dbeierl, moved from the body of the article:

"[N.B. The listed height must be a typo -- 408 instead of 108 -- or improper conversion in the reference. Photographs of the rebuilt structure at Sydenham Hill (whose central transept was built higher than the original) make this obvious. The reference at the end of note 2 quotes the height of the original transept as 108 ft which I think is reasonable]." —Preceding unsigned comment added by McGeddon (talk • contribs) 18:02, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Apochryphal Quote

The Duke of Wellington never said: "Sparrowhawks, Madam" 06:30, 21 May 2009 (UTC)~~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.58.247.6 (talk)

References

Sir Joseph Paxton

I think it would be appropriate to put Sir as Joseph Paxton's title. It is especially significant because he was specifically knighted for his design of the Crystal palace. And I think that fact should be included as well to show how ground breaking and innovative the Crystal Palace's architecture was for the time.

"He was knighted for the success of this design." - (2009). Paxton, Sir Joseph. Columbia Electronic Encyclopedia, 6th Edition, 1.

SLMAULAN (talk) 06:29, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Relating to Sir Joseph, I recall on a visit (1989) to Edensor Church in Derbyshire, where he is buried, a note (which may have been on a card - I found no guidebook then) that the palace burned down the same day as the local church council decided to remove the railings from his grave for safety reasons. Is there a published account of this coincidence (which may hint at a curse or supernatural retribution)?Cloptonson (talk) 05:48, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

facsimile reprint of a 1854 edition

Perhaps you are interested in this news for your article: The “Crystal Palace Guides” series offers facsimiles of the original 1864 guides. Here is the link [1]--92.76.101.82 (talk) 11:37, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

A lot of stuff like this freely available at Internet Archive. Green Cardamom (talk) 14:12, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Crystal Palace fires

There were actually four of them - of which the 1936 fire was the third, according to a leaflet in a file on the Crystal Palace at The National Archives. As this is somewhat OR will make a note of elsewhere and link from here. Jackiespeel (talk) 22:39, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

Conception and design section

I'm glad to see the numerous additions to the Conception and design section. However, not all of these new additions are adequately sourced, and the section is now far too long and ungainly, encompassing not only the design itself but all kinds of other issues. I think we need to break down this section, and move some of this material to subsections; perhaps a new section on "Building issues" coming after "Construction"? Something needs to be done to organize this (valuable) new material. Clevelander96 (talk) 23:27, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

Agreed. It's needlessly long to the point where I personally don't trust it, especially without sources. Not sure about breaking it down or creating a new section, but sources and conciseness would be better. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jowerkatz (talk • contribs) 07:33, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

Window Tax and Crystal Palace

Was there any move to apply Window Tax to the Crystal Palace? Jackiespeel (talk) 17:16, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

(though probably 'not a category of building to which WT applied - along with other glasshouses). Jackiespeel (talk) 17:10, 22 May 2014 (UTC)

No. The Window Tax was repealed on 24 July 1851 -- not quite three months after the Crystal Palace at Hyde Park was built. It wasn't a private home, so it probably wouldn;t have been subject to tax. The Syndenham Crystal Palace was re-erected long after the tax was repealed.Clevelander96 (talk) 18:57, 22 May 2014 (UTC)

Came across reference to the ending of one being almost simultaneous with the ending of the other (so it had occurred to someone else). Would have been an interesting challenge to assess 'great glass constructs' (among other possibilities).

The Sydenham CP burnt down just before Edward VIII abdicated. Jackiespeel (talk) 21:32, 22 May 2014 (UTC)

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Dismantled by Wards

I see from a photo held by the University of Maryland that Thos. W. Ward Ltd., Sheffield, dismantled the The Crystal Palace. (Their date of the photograph, Jan 01, 1851, must be wrong). Does anyone have information on when Wards dismantled the building? Was it before the move or after the fire? See https://digital.lib.umd.edu/worldsfairs/result/id/umd:768?query=sheffield 2A00:23C6:3B89:8A00:DDC2:6BCF:985B:E9F6 (talk) 01:30, 23 August 2019 (UTC)

Note to self: Wards was established in 1878, so Thos. W. Ward can only have been given the contract after the fire. 2A00:23C6:3B89:8A00:DDC2:6BCF:985B:E9F6 (talk) 01:41, 23 August 2019 (UTC)

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