Talk:Penistone Line

Untitled

I am rewriting these notes on the West Yorkshire Metro lines so that more information on the route followed by the Line , (other than simply MetroCard details) is apparent. I am using information culled from my records, which includes The ABC Pre-Grouping Atlas, but I'd appreciate some help:

• I am unsure whether some of the stations on the route still exist: if they do not then the note "(closed?)" should be amended to read "(closed"); and if the date is known, I'd be grateful for that info to be included.
• Some name details (eg "Elsecar & Hoyland") might also be incorrect today, although historically correct. I have also made each name the railway station, and not the place: the article is about a railway, after all.
• I am sure that there has been a good deal of rationalistion of the routes on the Barnsley - Sheffield section
• which station in Barnsley is the one through which the Line passes?

Peter Shearan 06:49, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Criticism Section

Hi all,

Have removed criticism section as I considered it to be trivia (at best). Best username yet 17:47, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Addition of other lines to route map

Hi, I have added other lines to the route map, as this seems to be common in other UK route maps (e.g. South_Western_Main_Line), otherwise the route is just a repeat of the Metro map. If this is unwanted, or a repeat of information elsewhere on wikipedia, please let me know and revert it back to the simple map.I don't want to step on anyone's toes, but used to use this line daily and wanted to start adding some info I had.Scillystuff (talk) 22:40, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Penistone Line/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

. Requires addition of inline references using one of the {{Cite}} templates Requires copy-edit for WP:MOS Keith D (talk) 14:03, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Last edited at 14:03, 21 February 2008 (UTC). Substituted at 02:36, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

Requested move 16 April 2017

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: No consensus. (non-admin closure) Yashovardhan (talk) 11:31, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

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Penistone Line → Penistone line – Per WP:TITLEFORMAT and WP:NCCAPS and MOS:CAPS, avoid unnecessary caps. Line here is not part of a proper name, as evidenced by most modern book and news sources that use lowercase (note that where Line is capped it's usually in part of a proper name such as the Penistone Line Partnership or the Penistone Line Trail or the Penistone Line Music Trains, not the line itself). Dicklyon (talk) 04:36, 16 April 2017 (UTC)

Evidence

• books show clear majority lowercase line, especially when the "Trail" and "Partnership" are excluded.
• news is pretty mixed; caps clearly are not "necessary" per MOS:CAPS.

Note: The first two books listed in the search date from the 19th century when the Penistone line was the line that ran from Huddersfield to Penistone. This is different from the modern incarnation that runs between Sheffield and Huddersfield. Other historical books in the search also refer to this earlier incarnation.

Survey

• Oppose - Penistone Line is the proper name as demonstrated by outside sources.

"A trip on the Penistone Line is not just a train ride" - The Penistone Line Partnership

"The scheme replaces a previously-announced tram-train trial on the Penistone Line" - BBC

Eckerslike (talk) 10:57, 16 April 2017 (UTC)

The Penistone Line Partnership clearly has their own biased style. The BBC does not cap it consistently: [1]; so the clearly do not see it as a proper name. Some sources stick to a style, and some cap such things, but that's not WP's style. Dicklyon (talk) 16:56, 16 April 2017 (UTC)

Note: The evidence section was added after my initial comment. In addition the Timetable lists its name as Penistone Line in addition the line description on title page and the Network Rail route specification refers to the route as the Penistone Line. In both cases the use of the name contrasts with the majority of routes that just have a description of the route. Eckerslike (talk) 20:30, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

On your network rail link, I get a 404 error. I searched and found Specification 2011 London North East.pdf this one where they only cap "Line" in table entries, but use lower case when mentioning "Penistone line" in a sentence. So not proper name treatment there. On the timetable, I only see it in a title-case heading; no sentence usage, so no evidence of proper-name treatment there either. Dicklyon (talk) 20:36, 18 April 2017 (UTC)

Agree with Dicklyon's last post. And Eckerslike, the first rat you can smell in that BBC quote is the hyphen after -ly ... that's against US and UK styleguides, AND basic logic. So I don't hold much store by the BBC on that count. Tony (talk) 08:07, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

The point is to identify instances where they are using a name for the line in formal circumstances where "Penistone Line" would not be used to mean that line (with no name) that goes to Penistone. In both links the name "Penistone Line" is given in addition to a description thus "Sheffield-Huddersfield (Penistone Line)" makes no sense if Penistone Line is not a proper name. Why not just say Sheffield Huddersfield Line? I have also found this at National Rail Enquires that lists Penistone Line as a Named railway line. Eckerslike (talk) 21:16, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

• Support and agree with Dicklyon's comment. "As demonstrated by outside sources" ... well you can find bad usage "outside" for anything you like, even by professional bodies that use caps as boosterism (against usage elsewhere). And Eckerslike, are you being swayed by the appearance of this item in titles that use title case? Tony (talk) 02:05, 17 April 2017 (UTC)
• Support as the title is in no way exceptional to our titling policy regarding caps. Primergrey (talk) 12:48, 21 April 2017 (UTC)
• Oppose created as a proper noun phrase as a marketing term as Penistone Line, rather than just a geographic descriptor. Andy Dingley (talk) 17:21, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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